hi from clueless noob, and Qs

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payaso del mar
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hi from clueless noob, and Qs

Post by payaso del mar » Fri May 18, 2018 5:08 pm

Hola MacPersons—

Been lurking for a while and decided that I’m getting close enough to buying one I should sign on. Used to have a Mac25, but one of the motorsailers is what I’ve been lusting after for about the last 10 years.

I’ve read the M vs. X thread, the dismasting thread, and the one on rudder beefing. A few Qs. If these have already been answered, please just point me where I should go.

1. I was able to tow our M25 with my 4 cyl Taco (2.7 liter 3RZ, 165 ft-lb, 5 speed manual, rated to tow 3500# but I’ve pulled 4000 with it), even over NM mountain passes, by shifting down and being willing to crawl up it in 2d or 3d. how much more does an X weigh? Wiki seems to suggest within about 300#. Do y’all think it would be totally unfeasible to do this with an X? I’m assuming the extra weight of an M would be totally out of my range….?

2. Specific failure-prone areas to look at on used Xs? I know about the standing rigging and the rudder/bracket assembly….que mas?

3. Suggestions on Incredibly Persuasive Arguments to use to try to convince the Admiral to approve a semi frivolous $15,000+ purchase….??

Thanks in advance for all input, jeers, thrown rotten fruit, etc! Some time I’ll tell you how my wife came to bestow that handle upon me, why I still have sea urchin spines in my toe, and how I managed to accidentally test every extravagant claim the portabote folks make on their website……

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dlandersson
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Re: hi from clueless noob, and Qs

Post by dlandersson » Fri May 18, 2018 6:42 pm

No, if the X were empty. But if you are going to any other "stuff" you might want to think about renting a vehicle with greater tow capacity. 8)
Last edited by dlandersson on Sat May 19, 2018 5:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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sailboatmike
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Re: hi from clueless noob, and Qs

Post by sailboatmike » Fri May 18, 2018 8:35 pm

Hi and Welcome

I would say you need to be able to tow a minimum of 4,400lbs to have any chance with a X, by the time you add the trailer (std single axle trailer around 700lb) a 50Hp motor (220lbs and more if the motor is bigger), some fuel, water, sails, safety equipment etc. the weight soon starts leaping skyward.

And of course you have to pull it out of the water at the ramp, even with the ballast tank only 1/2 full add another 500lbs.

The X and M are VERY LARGE boats with a high windage so you want a big heavy tow car to help you control the length in my humble opinion, my X is just on 33 feet from tow ball to motor when its on the trailer which may not sound much but it makes for a VERY long car and trailer combo (around 50 feet), just google some pics of X car and trailer combined to get an idea, I almost died when I went to pick mine up

This picture here gives you some idea of the scale of things http://www.macgregor26.com/trailering/t ... _large.jpg

And thats a full sized 4 x 4 pulling it

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Jimmyt
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Re: hi from clueless noob, and Qs

Post by Jimmyt » Fri May 18, 2018 8:51 pm

I was in a bind and towed my "M" with an AWD Chevy equinox with a V6. It made it the 14 miles to the ramp, pulled it out when we returned, and made the 14 mile pull home. I thought I was going to roast the transmission. It really didn't handle it well at all, and I wonder if I could have stopped it if my trailer brakes weren't fresh.

Could you pull an X with a small car and 4 cyl engine in a low gear? Maybe. But it will be neither safe nor pleasant in my opinion.

Note that I empty the ballast tank before putting the boat on the trailer. I doubt I would have gotten it up the ramp with the ballast in - unless I slow-rolled up while dumping... We don't usually have a lot of ramp time due to traffic, so I do whatever I can to get off the ramp and out of the way quick.

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Re: hi from clueless noob, and Qs

Post by DaveC426913 » Fri May 18, 2018 11:51 pm

> Specific failure-prone areas to look at on used Xs? I know about the standing rigging and the rudder/bracket assembly….que mas?

Older rudder brackets are plastic or something as cheap. Newer ones are stainless steel. Try to get one with SS.

My helm seat is spongy and full of cracks. My cockpit seats have hairline cracks too.

The engine is 1/3 the cost of your boat. Research it well.

Check the engine well drain plumbing under the cockpit - at the stern of the main berth (hope you don't have claustrophobia). Is it dried out and ready to leak into your bilge?

Check that the hull is white and not blue.

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sailboatmike
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Re: hi from clueless noob, and Qs

Post by sailboatmike » Sat May 19, 2018 12:15 am

DaveC426913 wrote:> Specific failure-prone areas to look at on used Xs? I know about the standing rigging and the rudder/bracket assembly….que mas?
Check the shrouds, especially the forestay, if its original 1/8" upgrade it 3/16" (BYW sell the upgrade)
DaveC426913 wrote:Older rudder brackets are plastic or something as cheap. Newer ones are stainless steel. Try to get one with SS.
From 1995 to late 1997 the X had alloy cast brackets, I still have them on my boat and have no issues with them, however being alloy and cast you need to check for cracks, lateral forces (sideways) can open them up and cause them to fail, I have packers each side of my rudder (old CD's) to improve the fit
DaveC426913 wrote:My helm seat is spongy and full of cracks. My cockpit seats have hairline cracks too.
I too had a crack under the captain's seat, I think this is cause by owners not being careful when opening the seat and just letting it slam when closing, a couple of layers of fiberglass over the crack and a lick of paint and its as good if not better than new.
DaveC426913 wrote:The engine is 1/3 the cost of your boat. Research it well.
Agreed, look for a 4 stroke if possible, 2 strokes a generally noisier and who wants blue smoke
DaveC426913 wrote:Check the engine well drain plumbing under the cockpit - at the stern of the main berth (hope you don't have claustrophobia). Is it dried out and ready to leak into your bilge?
They all leak at some stage, its no big deal, generally tighten up the hose clamp
DaveC426913 wrote:Check that the hull is white and not blue.
X's were not made with blue hulls, so not a issue if your buying a X, however there is ONE real black hull X that was owned by Blue Water Yachts, but its not really a X, it was highly modified out of the factory

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NiceAft
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Re: hi from clueless noob, and Qs

Post by NiceAft » Sat May 19, 2018 6:32 am

however there is ONE real black hull X that was owned by Blue Water Yachts, but its not really a X, it was highly modified out of the factory


The Black Pearl was an :macm: , not an :macx: . When you make a concept boat (which it was), you start with a superior product, and go forward. :evil: :) :D

http://www.bwyachts.com/whatis%20pearl.html

Ray

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Re: hi from clueless noob, and Qs

Post by Nauti Nell » Sat May 19, 2018 7:36 am

I had a 2.7 L Tacoma when I bought my M. Automatic. Decided to borrow a friends F250 to tow it from N.C. coast to Atlanta, Ga due to weight limits on Taco. Hooked Taco to boat to move around my yard and decided to move up truck wise. 3500 # max towing with Taco. Ended up buying a F150 with 2.7 L twin turbo. 7600 # tow capacity. HUGE difference. Got the tow package. Have no issues with power pulling M around. Anywhere. If you plan on towing any distance safely I would get a bigger tow vehicle. Something that you only use about 3/4 of the capacity.

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NiceAft
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Re: hi from clueless noob, and Qs

Post by NiceAft » Sat May 19, 2018 1:37 pm

Something that you only use about 3/4 of the capacity.


Makes perfect sense.

I owned a trucking company for a couple of decades (furniture delivery). When I would be in the market for a truck, I always bought a vehicle that had a much larger gross vehicle weight than what my needs were.

Now, that being said, the vehicle I bought to tow my brand new 2005 :macm: in 2004, was a GMC Envoy (actually bought it in 2002). It did not have towing capacity in excess of the boat and trailer. In 2011 I bought a GMC Acadia. Its towing capacity also did not exceed the combined boat/trailer weight. Both vehicles handled the chore well. Up and down the Pocono and Adirondack mountains for three hundred mile trips (each way).

Ray

P.S. I should have added that a transmission cooler is important to have for towing.
Last edited by NiceAft on Mon May 21, 2018 6:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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sailboatmike
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Re: hi from clueless noob, and Qs

Post by sailboatmike » Sat May 19, 2018 5:01 pm

NiceAft wrote:The Black Pearl was an :macm: , not an :macx: . When you make a concept boat (which it was), you start with a superior product, and go forward. :evil: :) :D

http://www.bwyachts.com/whatis%20pearl.html

Ray
Thanks for the clarification, I was working from memory, I'm BAD.

Not so sure about SUPERIOR product though :P

whgoffrn
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Re: hi from clueless noob, and Qs

Post by whgoffrn » Sun May 20, 2018 10:00 pm

I think it would be feasible to tow it very short distances with that set up....i towed mine 5 miles with a honda civic and trailer has no brakes ....(standard and in 1st and 2nd gear in Florida on flat pavement) so it really all depends on how far and how fast you intend to trailer it.... the farther and faster u intend to go the bigger tow vehicle you need full size truck is prob the safest .....i used to tow with an f150 and even with it when a tractor trailer blew past me it would get a little scary at times from trailer sway .... I tow long distances wv to the keys so now have a 6.0 f350 diesel dually which handles it much better

And as far as failure points it also goes with the area you will sail ....if you are going to stay mostly in lakes I don't think you'll break much .... big water /swells/ squalls is when things break but for inland waters all I would suggest is a 25lb Mantus anchor to keep you planted in the event a windy storm does roll in when youre at anchor sleeping and customize it for your preferences through time ... some don't want a fridge and a solar panel others want a 125hp engine ...it will be a money pit (as all boats are) but you'll customize it based on the things you feel your boat bucks should go towards

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Re: hi from clueless noob, and Qs

Post by Gazmn » Mon May 21, 2018 12:44 am

Money I spent within first 2 years:

1. A repower - 12K. Once my dirty carb eng failed me. Bad :x
2. Tow vehicle upgrade. Went from 3500lb capacity minivan I brought it home with to a a ‘97 diesel P/U truck I bought right after on Ebay 5K & my white knuckle driving disapeared :P
3. Update electronics: chartplotter etc as necessary <1K.

Mac :macx: ‘s & :macm: ‘s don’t fail. Motors, tow vehicles, electronics & eventually trailers need to be updated.

& Mods are personal improvements you invest time & $$ into. Enjoy the journey 8)

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Re: hi from clueless noob, and Qs

Post by Baha » Mon May 21, 2018 2:05 am

Bite the bullet and get a decent pickup...you will be lots happier. I tow with a UK-spec Ranger quad cab turbodiesel. These are built a lot stronger than the US ones, so I would not advise using those.

As far as biggest purchases...new headsail, upgraded forestay, jumpbox if the batteries die.

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Ixneigh
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Re: hi from clueless noob, and Qs

Post by Ixneigh » Wed May 23, 2018 7:19 pm

I have a v8 ford full sized van and it's barely enough to pull a (admittedly heavy) M

Ix

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sailboatmike
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Re: hi from clueless noob, and Qs

Post by sailboatmike » Thu May 24, 2018 6:36 am

whgoffrn wrote:I think it would be feasible to tow it very short distances with that set up....i towed mine 5 miles with a honda civic
We have used this little 6Hp tractor to pull the boats around the yard, however I did need to get someone considerably larger than me to drive as when I tried the tractor wheels would spin, thats my old Rear Commodore moving "Sea U Later" around the yard.

I have some video of it I will upload on my YouTube channel when I get 5 minutes to do some editing

Image

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