Best way to shorten CDI furler?

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bobbob
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Best way to shorten CDI furler?

Post by bobbob » Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:50 pm

I want to add a Johnson lever to the bottom of the furler to make the chore of raising the mast easier. The lever adds about 4-5” to the furler length so I guess I need to reduce the length of the further by the same amount.

Once I cut down the flat gray plastic part of the furler, I need to reduce the length of the stay cable that runs inside. Would it be better to:

- maybe find a new turnbuckle at the bottom that is much shorter (or even omit it altogether now that I have adjustability with the Johnson lever?) Note that right now the turnbuckle is already as short as it can go.

- shorten at the cable top by redoing the cable eye? Note that I am terrified I will do this wrong and it will come loose the first time I am under heavy wind!

Alternatively, would it be better simply to move the mast connection point up 5 inches? Note that now it would no longer be connected at the same point as the side stays, possibly introducing a mast bend.

Other ideas? Also, is it worth replacing this stay cable while I’m doing the work? It looks in perfect shape but I don’t know how it looks internally. I guess then I could simply order one of a shorter length, but I’m not sure how to specify this.


Thanks!

Wayne nicol
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Re: Best way to shorten CDI furler?

Post by Wayne nicol » Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:22 pm

i shortened mine a bit when i put my new bow roller on, and i did it my adjusting the bolt at the furler, however- doing it again, i would use the opportunity to upgrade the shroud to a heavier duty one, made to your exact length required and get it swaged professionally. still with some adjustability built in with a turnbuckle.

bobbob
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Re: Best way to shorten CDI furler?

Post by bobbob » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:47 pm

Thinking about this more - if I get a new shroud, doesn’t one end need to be unswaged to push through the furler? And if so, what do I do with that once it’s replaced?

bobbob
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Re: Best way to shorten CDI furler?

Post by bobbob » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:06 pm

Looking at CDI videos the shroud wire has the threaded bolt built into the end- I would need to order another one of these. I guess CDI probably sells them.

If I cut the bolts down that enter the turnbuckle that would also work though, if I can get 5 inches off while still leaving enough bolt to make the turnbuckle safe.

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Tomfoolery
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Re: Best way to shorten CDI furler?

Post by Tomfoolery » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:59 pm

bobbob wrote:Looking at CDI videos the shroud wire has the threaded bolt built into the end- I would need to order another one of these. I guess CDI probably sells them.
BWY sells them, and will make it shorter if you specify. Also either standard 1/8" rope, or the heavier 5/32" diameter, same as the side stays.

But how much room do you have in the foil from the top of the sail to the foil's end cap? If you shorten the foil, you probably won't be able to raise the sail all the way.

Most folks just move the forestay hound higher.

bobbob
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Re: Best way to shorten CDI furler?

Post by bobbob » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:12 am

Yep, lots of room on the foil. I took a survey in my club and no other boats have the forestay hound higher then the shrouds, so I’d feel a little self conscious :-)

I’ll call BWY today.

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Re: Best way to shorten CDI furler?

Post by paul I » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:12 am

I'm not sure you will need to shorten the furler foil that much, if at all. I haven't actually measured it, but I'll bet my rig has about 5" of play before it actually reaches the forestay hound. Once you have the new shorter stay, I would check before cutting anything.

Other considerations:

You shouldn't be able to reduce the turnbuckle length by cutting the bolts shorter. If everything is sized correctly with regard to the turnbuckle, at its minimum length, with both eye bolts fully threaded in, they should also bottom out on the turnbuckle body. Cutting them will only provide for less bolt length in the turnbuckle body, not a shorter turnbuckle. Also, if you cut the bolts, you would need to re-drill the tiny holes in the ends so you can insert the ringdings or keeper pins that you will need to prevent the turnbuckle from unscrewing. This is important.

The stock system uses a toggle on the lower stay connection but does not use a toggle at the top of the stay. But CDI says there should be one at both ends to relieve twisting tension and metal fatigue on the stay wire. You should add one if you are having a new stay made anyway. The shortest toggle you can get is about 1".

Finally, raising the furler will change the angle where the furl line meets the deck. You probably have a fairlead bolted to the deck right where it needs to be for the line at the current furler height. This may well need to be changed when you raise the furler.

Directions for accomplishing all of the above can be found in the CDI instruction manual.
Last edited by paul I on Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bobbob
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Re: Best way to shorten CDI furler?

Post by bobbob » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:25 pm

Thanks. I have some play at the top above the foil but not 5". You are right about the turnbuckle bolts, the need for the ringding holes makes that solution impractical.

Good tip about a shackle up top, I will add that into my accounting. That combined with the lever combined with the turnbuckle already being as short as possible means I probably want to take about 8" off the length for a replacement stay.

Yes there is a fairlead ring at the front for the furling line, I am hoping the new angle after raising is not severely different. If it is I may attach a new one to the bow railing.

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Re: Best way to shorten CDI furler?

Post by Tomfoolery » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:45 pm

bobbob wrote:Thanks. I have some play at the top above the foil but not 5". You are right about the turnbuckle bolts, the need for the ringding holes makes that solution impractical.
Are you sure you have enough empty space in the top of the foil for both the sail and a toggle? Your sail must not be OEM or the same size luff as the OEM. I only have an inch or so on mine with either the OEM genoa or working jib. And less than an inch above the top cap to the forestay Nicopress termination. Once you cut it, there's no going back.
bobbob wrote:Good tip about a shackle up top, I will add that into my accounting. That combined with the lever combined with the turnbuckle already being as short as possible means I probably want to take about 8" off the length for a replacement stay.
I think you mean "toggle".
bobbob wrote:Yes there is a fairlead ring at the front for the furling line, I am hoping the new angle after raising is not severely different. If it is I may attach a new one to the bow railing.
Moving the drum up 5-6" is going to greatly knock the angle off 90 degrees. Plan on moving the fairlead.

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Re: Best way to shorten CDI furler?

Post by jim nolan » Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:23 pm

When you raise the mast [using the winch] just crank it a little more, so you can attach the furler easily. Save you a lot of work.

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Re: Best way to shorten CDI furler?

Post by paul I » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:37 pm

Tomfoolery wrote: I think you mean "toggle".
Yes. Quite right.

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Re: Best way to shorten CDI furler?

Post by Starscream » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:01 pm

bobbob wrote:I want to add a Johnson lever to the bottom of the furler to make the chore of raising the mast easier. The lever adds about 4-5” to the furler length so I guess I need to reduce the length of the further by the same amount.

Once I cut down the flat gray plastic part of the furler, I need to reduce the length of the stay cable that runs inside. Would it be better to:

- maybe find a new turnbuckle at the bottom that is much shorter (or even omit it altogether now that I have adjustability with the Johnson lever?) Note that right now the turnbuckle is already as short as it can go.

- shorten at the cable top by redoing the cable eye? Note that I am terrified I will do this wrong and it will come loose the first time I am under heavy wind!

Alternatively, would it be better simply to move the mast connection point up 5 inches? Note that now it would no longer be connected at the same point as the side stays, possibly introducing a mast bend.

Other ideas? Also, is it worth replacing this stay cable while I’m doing the work? It looks in perfect shape but I don’t know how it looks internally. I guess then I could simply order one of a shorter length, but I’m not sure how to specify this.


Thanks!
We used to have nightmares pinning the furler. We solved that, and added some peace of mind, by adding a second rope forestay. I added a second mast hound about 8 inches above the stock one, and ran a rope down to the mast carrier bolt in the pulpit. I put a simple turnbuckle at the bottom of the rope on two snap-shackles and it makes things so easy.

I have the mast raising system in storage somewhere, but haven't used it yet. I will soon but for now the deadlift technique still works. I'm sure it will help with pinning the furler but I will keep the backup forestay anyway.

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Re: Best way to shorten CDI furler?

Post by gordl » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:58 pm

I added the Johnson lever. It made a huge difference getting the front stay attached. The genoa used the whole furler so I had to move the hound assembly up about the 5 inches you suggested. Adding turnbuckles to the side stays was an easy solution there and issue solved with no noticeable effect on rigging or performance. Longer 1inch side stay boots cover the whole assembly so the jib sheets don’t catch.

kurz
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Re: Best way to shorten CDI furler?

Post by kurz » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:24 am

actually - wenn I am allone without helpt - I use the boom vang. I attach it with a strap at the genoa going down with the other end. So I can put tension in the right directon (what does not work properliy with the MRS).

Works well at the moment. Putting turnbuckels at the shroud sounds good too. maybe it would be enough to just put it on the upper shrouds?

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Re: Best way to shorten CDI furler?

Post by bobbob » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:44 am

Tomfoolery wrote:Are you sure you have enough empty space in the top of the foil for both the sail and a toggle? Your sail must not be OEM or the same size luff as the OEM. I only have an inch or so on mine with either the OEM genoa or working jib. And less than an inch above the top cap to the forestay Nicopress termination. Once you cut it, there's no going back.
I am sure I have enough empty space, but your comment is giving me pause should I ever want to replace the headsail (and I do want to replace it, its pretty bagged out) that my furler will now be too short for OEM-spec sails.

Another thing - this conversation jogged my brain a little bit. 2 years ago I replaced the side shrouds from BWY. I had a recollection that maybe I bought a replacement headstay at the time, and sure enough I did. I already have a new (5/32") replacement stay for this furler in my garage :D I guess it would be easy to take this somewhere to get re-swaged though. But now I'm thinking it may not be the best idea after all.

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