26X versus 26M Production

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Dimitri-2000X-Tampa
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26X versus 26M Production

Post by Dimitri-2000X-Tampa » Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:22 am

I decided to start a new thread on this topic since the other one was a totally different topic.

I am trying to figure out how much the 26X production may have trailed off during the end of production...ie, to tell if the production of the 26M is really half as much as the 26X or if 26X production had trailed off dramatically in the last year or two.
Duane Dunn, Allegro wrote: The "X" started at #1 in July of 1995 (model year 1996 boats) and the last ones rolled out in December of 2002 with if I recall correctly something in the #5600 range. That represented the production of the factory for model years 1996 through 2002, 7 years, average of 800 boats a year. The 2003 "M" run was certainly less than 400 boats if there are 2004 model year ones out there with hull numbers in the high 300's. I'm not saying this is bad, it's just an interesting observation that the 2003 sales volume of the "M" was half what it was with the "X". No bad reflection on the "M" intended, but this had to be a big hit to the factory and the dealers pocketbooks.
I've noticed that people don't post their hull numbers much anymore on Heath's new board as they did on the old board. Well, I guess it is the 26M'ers that are posting their hull numbers more often now since that is the boat currently under production.

I have a 2000 X, hull number 3575, date code B000 which according to Duane, means my hull was manufactured in February 2000. This makes sense as the boat was delivered a month or two after that. Coincidentally, March of 2000 was the end of the biggest bull market in history and the start of the biggest bear market since the great depression.

Doing some math, there were approximately 3574 Mac26X's built before mine and about 2025 hulls built after mine. This translates to about 63.8 hulls per month during the first 56 months of production and about 59.6 hulls per month during the last 34 months...only about a 6.6% decrease in production. Comparatively, the 26M appears to be having a run rate of only 33.3 hulls per month during the first 12 months of production...a 44% decrease in production compared to the last 34 months of X production.
Joe 26M Time Warp wrote:Although Duane and others might have high hopes, the X didn't have the kind of competition the M does in start up, or the same kind of market conditions.
The earlier 26's weren't 50HP powersailors like the X. The M faces lots of dedicated X'ers without that much more to offer, and over the years some other manufacturers have picked away at MacGregor's market share.
Combine that with a weaker economy generally, and I'm not sure who is really surprised about a first year run of 400 boats, rather than 800. And don't forget our first (hull #32) wasn't received until May and when we got it they hadn't even published a manual yet.
Joe's point about the 26X being much more novel in comparison to earlier Mac's than the 26M is to the 26X is also quite valid. Also, perhaps the 26M had a much lower turnout in the first few months due to new manufacturing process development. This could imply that the rate actually picked up quite a bit afterwards. Would be interesting to know when 26M hull #200 was produced in relation to hull #400.

Since it probably took a while for the poorer economy to match a decline in boat orders, I'm wondering what the production rate was during the last 12 months or so of 26X production. It would be interesting to chart the trend more specifically during the last part of the 26X production run. Anyone have a 26X hull number from around December, 2001 or other tidbits to add to this thread?

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Post by The Quiet Mon » Sat Mar 13, 2004 8:36 am

I know my boat wasn't the last one off the line, but its got to be close to the end of the production run for the 26X.

My hull number in # 5248, code is L203-- I believe that it is a Dec 02 production of the 2003 model.


Let's see who has one of the last.
Last edited by The Quiet Mon on Mon Mar 15, 2004 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Norm
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Post by Norm » Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:40 am

#5248 must be one of the last. I have #5150 built in September 02.

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Post by Rick Mathews » Sat Mar 13, 2004 5:14 pm

Norm: We have hull 5157, just seven behind yours, but took delivery in August of 2002. It would seem that since yours is an earlier number it must not have been built in September but rather sometime before August.

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Don T
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Post by Don T » Sat Mar 13, 2004 6:36 pm

Hello:
I don't think the X starting date is correct. I sailed on hull #2 in January of 1995 and I picked up hull #64 in May 1995. I ran across hull #2064 at Government Is. in the summer of 97.

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Post by Norm » Sat Mar 13, 2004 6:53 pm

Hi Rick! That is odd. We took delivery on Nov 1st 2002, and our serial# clearly states "I" for built in Sep 2002. Also, Ben from "Seas the Moment" took delivery just a couple weeks before me from the same dealer, and his serial# is 5148. Which makes sense. Something strange is afoot :? DUANNE, HELP!

I never would have guessed that you were so new to sailing the X from the way you handled her in the San Juans. Good job Pilgram:) That was such a great trip!
Last edited by Norm on Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Norm » Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:09 pm

Ya got me wondering here, so I just went outside and looked at "FriendShip" to check and make sure I wasn't having some kind of brain fart.

Confirmed my hull serial # is; MACX5150I202

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Post by Rick Mathews » Sun Mar 14, 2004 4:53 pm

Norm: Thanks for the compliment--we're still learning! That was a great trip. We plan to go back to the San Juans again this year by ourselves and spend a little longer time there.

Our full hull number is MACX5157H202. We purchased ours from Blue Water in Seattle. The manufacturer's Statement of Origin says that ownership transferred to Blue Water on 8/1/02. We took delivery on 8/11/02.

The situation is very odd, as you say. It doesn't make sense, because the "I" in your number is later than the "H" in ours, but the hull number of yours is earlier than ours. One would expect that both letter and number would be earlier or later, but in this case one is earlier, and the other later!

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Post by Duane Dunn, Allegro » Sun Mar 14, 2004 7:41 pm

There always has been this numbering discrepency. The factory seems to assign hull numbers in lots, then get around to building them when they actually get the orders. Or it may be the other way around, they build them, then assign a hull number to a customer order and at the last minute stamp the transom. It was explained to me as one of these quite a while ago. Maybe Bill knows the sequence. The end result numbers come out screwy and out of order. Lower volume dealers also may have a boat in inventory longer than the big ones such as Bluewater, Imon, Havencraft, etc. Then the ones that really mess the sequential sales order up are the demos.

Don, I assume by your saying you sailed hull #2 you are refering to the early demo boat Bluewater had, which was later in 1995 purchased by my friend Ray once the actual production had begun and Bluewater got a non-prototype demo. He owned it until he moved to another 'X' in 2000 and he just sold that boat, Eaglet, and now has an 'M'. We have talked about some side by side trial of his 'M' and my 'X' since they both have 50's on them. Think I'll have to lighten my load to get close to a fair comparison.

The 'M' I met with two weeks ago out at Blake Island was also a similar story. It was hull #2 or 3, a Bluewater demo/prototype, and the source of my spy pictures pre-release as well as the few 'M' mods I have posted here. It arrived at Bluewater with the Merc 50 Roger put on for tests in Jan of 2003. They went out one time with the 50 then Todd pulled off the 50 and put a Suzuki 70 on for the final tests before the boat show season last year. It is the first 'M' they had at the Portland Boat show, right after the Seattle boat show last year. Cliff and I sailed on it last spring. It was finally sold last Nov to the people I met two weeks ago.

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Post by Rick Mathews » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:58 pm

Duane: Thanks for clearing up (or at least explaining) the confusion surrounding the boat numbers. Once again you prove to be a fount of knowledge on such obscure subjects! Interesting story about the M you met at Blake Island. Being from Portland, of course we took the tour of that boat at the 2003 show. It's interesting to hear about where it finally ended up.

Norm: So now we know a little more about what's behind the number oddities, though they still seem just as odd!

Frank C

Post by Frank C » Sun Mar 14, 2004 10:17 pm

Norm wrote:#5248 must be one of the last. I have #5150 built in September 02.
Rick Mathews wrote:Norm: We have hull 5157, just seven behind yours, but took delivery in August of 2002. It would seem that since yours is an earlier number it must not have been built in September but rather sometime before August.
Not exactly. Be explicit about hull numbers and "date built" versus "date delivered." The vessel ID number implies two different dates. The hull number date can only be inferred, but the factory-assigned ID number is actually the date of finished assembly, or the factory completion date. Delivery to the customer is purely incidental, and could be months after the factory completion date.

My boat (MACX3067G900) was one of the first model 2000 boats that exited the factory, trailered out by Arena Yachts in July 1999, and delivered a few weeks later in August. However, I have seen at least two hulls that were stamped as "F999" boats, the last of the '99 models, with higher numeric hull numbers than my boat. Infer that my hull was laid in June '99, but assembled (and stamped) in July '99 as an early model 2000.

Hull numbers are assigned when the mold is vacated, and those numbers remain with the hull. The vessel ID is assigned when the boat assembly is completed, by governmental regulation. Therefore, a partial hull assembly needing remediation might finish assembly weeks after a more recent hull number has been assembled, documented and shipped. These numbers are uniquely assigned by the factory, having nothing whatever to do with time spent in dealer demo fleets.

Finally, I believe that the greatest annual production level reached +800 hulls. You must truncate both early production, '95 and '96, when the design was in flux. You should also truncate the last year of production when the factory was limiting parts inventories in anticipation of the new model, delayed inordinately during prototyping and testing of the M.

As mentioned above, model year 2000 began in hull numbers +3060, and there were about 2100 produced between August '99 and August '02, clearly an average of 700 per year. I believe that last year may have been lower numbers. Examine the actual numbers from July '99 (hull #3067, model 2000) through June '01 (model 2001) and you may find larger production.

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