Anchor Riding Sail

[Rick Mathews]

Has anyone had any experience with an "anchor riding sail" such as the one by Sailrite? We have thought about one to lessen the "MacGregor Swing" at anchor. Any insights on whether a full cockpit enclosure would be in the way of the sail? We have the Blue Water Yachts enclosure, the top of which is just below the boom.

[Scott]

When it is windy enough to need one we use our triangular foredeck tarp. I just hank the one clip on the sort side to the backstay and clip the main halyard to it, clip the other one on the short side to the adjuster, hoist it then clip the line from the pointy end to the gooseneck, "instant riding sail"

It works great and I have about $6 in it.

I dont have a picture of it in action but this is a link to a picture of it over the foredeck.
http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1167

Long discussions re: this in the archives, if their still there.

[Jack O'Brien]

I have the Sailnet Anchor Riding Sail. Have only used it a couple times. I think it helps but I'm not sure how much. I put the short side on the backstay using topping lift and a pendant on the the bottom - this allows you to adjust height to clear the bimini. Tied the tack to the port winch. The boat still sailed and when it reached one of the sides the sail would luff and drive me crazy.

By setting two bow anchors at 45 to 90 degrees apart and adjusting the rodes the boat sails very little. With about 125 feet of rode out I had the GPS anchor alarm set at 25 feet and it didn't go off until one anchor dragged a little. This was in a stiff breeze overnight at The Dry Tortugas. That same night we watched another 26X with one anchor sail almost 180 degrees all over the place.

[Steve M]

Jack, I remember Chip Hinds using one of those triangular sails at the Dry tortugas trip.
Wonder how it worked for him?

Steve
My-la-la-mar

[jmdefino]

I also used one on the Dry Tortugas trip. We used it in Key West where we had wind and reversing currents. We made it based on the Sailrite plans but used some old sail cloth to construct it.

I believe it did make a bit of a difference. I tried to see how much we would swing before putting it up, then after. You could feel the sail "take over" as the boat swung in a smaller arch.

Jack, we were of course right next to you in Key West and I would watch to see if we were swinging less than you were. I believe we were, what do you think? I noticed we were swinging quite a bit less than some of the other Macs there.

[jmdefino]

I just remembered that I had a picture of ours as I set it up for the first time in the driveway:
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[Rick Mathews]

Thanks for the feedback so far, guys--I appreciate it. I would welcome more, though, if anyone else has experience with these things.

[Jack O'Brien]

John:

I didn't notice how you or others were sailing at the Wisteria anchorage. With the N-S tidal current reversing and the wind mostly easterly the boat kept pointing differently and therefore it was not possible to maintain proper adjustment of the two anchor rodes. Also, the last day or two there I had a single string of 6 Rocker Stoppers slowing my swinging back and forth. Didn't have enough weight on them to reduce rocking but they trailed out from the boat as it swung.

For 6 or 8 hours at Fort Jefferson the second night I swung less than enough to activate the GPS drag alarm set at 25 feet. At Wisteria it went off set at 75 feet and I reset it for 100 feet. Don't remember if it went off at 100 or not. I had both 9# danforths out with 16 feet of chain and 150 feet of rode. Had a wider angle between anchors at Ft. Jeff than at Wisteria.

[Andy26M]

Jack (or others with experience) -

My 26M only has 2 forward cleats, and they are side-by-side right at the tip of the bow. I believe the 26X has the same setup.

So, If you want to use a 2-anchor setup, where do you cleat off the second anchor? It seems to me that the 2 stock cleats are so close together that they would act as a single pivot point and would not stop the boat from swinging.

Also, what happens if you have 2 anchors out and the wind/current spins you in a full 360 degree circle over night so that the rodes get twisted?

- AndyS

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

I often put out two anchors. It doesn't reduce the motion of the boat any, but it does limit the area you swing in so you are a better neighbor. The Mac rarely stays in sync with the othe boats in the anchorage and using two anchors keeps the pivot point closer to a single spot. It also works great when you expect current and/or wind changes during the night.

Sometimes I set about 90 degrees apart if I feel confident that the wind or current direction will hold or I am looking for more security in a bottom I don't trust. Other times I'll set 180 degrees apart to fix the boat in a single place and provide security when the current reverses.

Just this year for the tight situations we encountered in Canada I added a 400' 3/8" poly shore tie spool on the stern. This lets you drop one or two anchors out in the middle and back in to the shore and tie the stern. Many of the parks had rings mounted to the shore just for this purpose. When a ring wasn't available a tree worked just as well. The line goes from a stern cleat to the object on shore and back to the other stern cleat. This is a much better method than a stern anchor on the beach and most of the beaches are shear rock so an anchor doesn't work anyway. It make leaving easier. You just release the bitter end and reel it in as it slips out the ring or around the tree. No need to go to the beach to retrieve the anchor.

At times with two anchors out you will wind up the rodes, particularly if you stay a few nights, but I've never had this create a problem retriving the anchors. You just unwind them once you pull the first one up.

[Janusch]

Jack (or others with experience) -

My 26M only has 2 forward cleats, and they are side-by-side right at the tip of the bow. I believe the 26X has the same setup.

So, If you want to use a 2-anchor setup, where do you cleat off the second anchor? It seems to me that the 2 stock cleats are so close together that they would act as a single pivot point and would not stop the boat from swinging.

Also, what happens if you have 2 anchors out and the wind/current spins you in a full 360 degree circle over night so that the rodes get twisted?

- AndyS

Andy we have been using two anchor set at 90 deg for a couple of seasons now, and have notice quite a bit of improvement in being able to stay put. We have been lucky that the wind has not done a 180 on us, but I would think that if it did I would still be better off then if I only had one anchor out there.
God Speed
Dave

[Jack O'Brien]

Andy:

Yes, the X also has the two cleats close together on the bow. And yes, that is essentiallly a single point. But that doesn't matter. What keeps the boat from sailing at anchor so much is that when it tries to go left the starboard anchor prevents it and when it tries to go right the port anchor prevents it.

I have the bitter end of my port pulpit-mounted anchor rode on the port cleat and the bitter end of the other anchor, which I keep in the locker, on the starboard cleat. Both 150' rodes and chains also stow in the locker. I cut 2 inches off the front of the locker cover, and sealed the cut,
so the cover could close with the rodes still cleated. Lots of anchors have been lost as the rode bitter end went overboard so ALWAYS have them cleated.

Yes, if the boat does a 360 the rodes get twisted. If necessary, you can uncleat one of them, the slacker one, and untwist them at the bow. If really bad, or dark, whatever, tie a good float to the uncleated one and let it go for retrieval later.

[Chip Hindes]

Regarding the anchor riding sail: I also have the one made from the Sailrite kit and used it for the first time while on the Dry Tortugas trip. I measured the swing by the compass both with and without the sail, and found that it reduces the swing but does not eliminate it. In a constant wind estimated at about 12 knots, single anchor deployed with about 8:1 scope, my fully loaded Mac swung an arc of about 75 degrees without the sail, and about 50 with it. Frankly, I was hoping for better.

However, one other significant observation was that the period of the swinging with the sail was also reduced by about half. The end result is that the speed and violence of the swings is reduced considerably, making it almost gentle. It was much more comfortable and I'm certain it reduced the loads on the anchor, rode and fittings considerably.

I intend to continue the "testing" phase now that the boat is more lightly loaded.

While at anchor I normally clip the mainsheet to the portside stanchion so the boom is out of the cockpit. I put a snap on the downhaul line which I then clip it to a cheap stamped shackle with the clevis pin through one of the unused holes in the backstay vernier. It's adjusted so the sail just clears the bimini when up. For the time being, I am using the main halyard to hoist it, and the tack line is run to the port side winch so it can be easily tensioned in both directions. I don't like having to disconnect the halyard shackle from the mainsail headboard, but I think that's preferable to a separate halyard, and the main halyard is already led aft through a rope clutch, so it works pretty well. With this method I can deploy or strike the sail in a moment (as someone said earlier, measured with a calibrated moment watch).

It's possible to rig and adjust the lines so the sail is any height above the cockpit, but I'm pretty certain the higher you rig it the less effective it will be and the more it will contribute to rocking.

[Rick Mathews]

Thanks for the thorough reply, Chip. Very helpful.