Rusty Thimbles

[Bill ( My Pleasure)]

On the standing rigging and the lifelines there are little metal parts called thimbles. They are used to relieve strain in places where the standed stainless steel is formed into a loop. This keeps the stainless cables from forming too sharp of a bend. Anyway, my thimbles are rusting. It seems like the Mac people could have spent a little more and used stainless thimbles. I am trying an automotive anti-rust liquid that is supposed to combine with the rust to cause a black polymer. I have thinking about spraying them with an anti-rust paint. Any ideas, or solutions?

[Tripp Gal]

Truthfully this is a tough call as recommendations depend on visual inspection. Take them to a qualified rigger (not a dealership) for a fair evaluation and ideas.

Myself? I wouldn't do it. I cough up the money to get new rigging. But then again I am ultra conservative. I check my lines regularly and a coating/sealer like PQR or Krylon will end up obstructing my view of what the wires are actually doing (strain, oxidation, etc). The only reason I say that is because you can't actually do a good job of coating just the thimble, you would need to coat the wire and thimble to protect against rust on the inside and outside of the thimble.

[Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL]

MacGregors often get a bad rap from some people, who do not have one, or are not familiar with them, so it's not a huge leap that someone would think MacGregor dealers, by implication, are neither qualified nor fair.
I'm an experienced rigger, having done rigging on sailing dinghys to ocean going freighters. Being experienced, however is different than being qualified, because that calls for a value judgement. I'll let others that I've done work for decide if I'm fair or not.
My ideas for rigging the MacGregor 26M, will compare favorably with any "qualified rigger" in the country.
Some people think that sitting on a sailboat that is going about as fast as a person can walk is racing.
I say that trying to beat tracer rounds out of a hot LZ is racing.

[Tripp Gal]

The not going to a dealship is nothing specific to MacGregor vendors. If I had a J-boat I would not take my rigging questions to the J dealer. Same goes for Hylas, Hinkley, Concordia, Swan, etc. The only way I would engage with the dealer regarding rigging issues (beyond the basic splice or replacement part) is if they were also well respected riggers in the sailing community.

A majority of boat retailers do not have the experience, knowledge, whatever you want to call it. As an industry professional I am sure you can agree with that. If you provide rigging services or have that experience in your cv you would be the exception to the rule, and that is great, we need more multi-faceted resources for boat owners to go to.

Not sure about the comment about racing. Cruising or racing, it doesn't matter. I take my propulsion systems (sail and power) maintenance seriously, and if I have even a question I go to the experts.

[Rolf]

Bill here and my local dealer Mike Inmon have given me excellent advice, and service, often discouraging me from spending money on upgrades that would be of little actual value to me (at the expense of their profit). That said, local experts are invaluable for upgrading things like rigging, sails, and canvas(dodgers).

Everyone should do their own research and get multiple opinions before buying upgrades/add-ons. I start here, because the experience of people on this board has already saved me hundreds of dollars and hours of buyers remorse.
Rolf

[Chip Hindes]

It seems like the Mac people could have spent a little more and used stainless thimbles.

To return to the original subject, the thimbles used by Macgregor are most certainly stainless. If they weren't, those exposed to regular baths of salt water would be destroyed in less than a year.

The problem is this: there are many different degrees of "stainlessness". The terms "stainless" and "steel" though not mutually exclusive, at the very least involve some compromises (we engineers usually prefer to call this "optimization") in corrosion resistance, strength, workability and cost. Most "marine grade" stainless parts are made of 316 or 304 stainless. 316 has better corrosion resistance, but it has more nickel and molybdenum content, and by my catalogs costs about 1.5X as much as 304 in its raw form. It is also more difficult to form.

The thimbles in particular are subject to constant mechanical abrasion as the rigging "works" and this also will contribute to the tendency to rust. If your thimbles are exhibiting significant rusting, it is possible they are 304 and not 316, but I'm pretty sure given the right set of adverse conditions, even 316 will exhibit some amount of rust.

This is the first sailboat I've owned for any length of time and thus I have nothing to base this on, but my guess is that over extended salt water exposure even many big money boats exhibit some degree of rusting on the rigging parts.

Trying to stop rust on rigging parts with any kind of paint-on conversion coating is probably a waste of time.

[Bill ( My Pleasure)]

Everybody,thanks for all the comments and information. My boat hasn't had any exposure to salt water. My rigging looks good. The rusting seems to occur on the thimbles in the lifelines. I wonder if the thimbles can be replaced with new ones without replacing the lifelines. There is little rusting on the mast rigging. Chip, thanks for the information on the different forms of stainless. I understand that different metals in contact can suffer from corrosion. The different alloys are essentially dissimilar metals. I can't really comment on the quality of rigging work done by dealers or riggers, but I think talent is where you find it and it is important to have quality work when it comes to rigging. If you find that a dealer or at a rigger it's all good. Next time I see my Mac I will closely examine the rigging for any sign of deterioration. I recommend that others do the same.

[Scott]

Next time I see my Mac I will closely examine the rigging for any sign of deterioration. I recommend that others do the same.

Remember the old adage, "take care of your equipment and your equipment will take care of you." Apparently Bill has.

We would all do well to realize that if our boats leave us stranded it would likely be in a situation where life and limb are in peril.

Any construct with 1 or more parts used in its manufacture is subject to wear and stress. Any time you jump on your boat a thorough inspection is called for. If you dont follow this simple rule the time and energy you save will manifest itself in grief and expense.

ie: Slip your boat and havent checked the forestay pin for awhile? It wears to the point of breakage, Fails and the mast comes crashing down. Mast Buckles rips the foot from the deck spreaders break rigging kinks and it hits (Insert name hear) requiring a trip to the emergency room. All because of the failure of a .60c part.

Sounds a little dramatic but I hope it got the point across.

[norbert]

bill + scott, you're right, rigging should be inspected regularly. don't forget to look at the forestay and it's turbuckle hidden under the roller furler!

bill, have you tried something like "never dull" to remove the rust stains?

[kmclemore]

Engineer's Handbook, Chapter 1, Verses 37-40:

37 And He said unto to him, "'Thou shalt inspect thine equipment with all thine eyes, and with all thine fingers, and with all thine ears.' 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it: 'Thou shalt lubricate everything copiously.' 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

[Tom Spohn]

Bill,
I am wondering if the thimbles are just galvanized steel? One way to check is to see if they are magnetic. Type 304/316 as explained by Chip above are non-magnetic. If your thimbles are magnetic they could either be galvanized steel or a 400 series (similar to what is found in scissors or knives) or something similar. Could the thimbles just be replaced?

[Bill ( My Pleasure)]

Thanks for all the replies! Kmclemore, thanks for the"biblical quote". Norbert, I have never tried "never dull". There are a few different stainless steel cleaners and at least one rust remover product that I have seen in stores. I should try "never dull". Tom, I think that is an excellent idea to test the thimbles with a magnet, at least, it is a good way to see if they are stainless. I also wonder if the thimbles are replaceable. Bill

[kmclemore]

Well, if you want to do it 'on the cheap', I've found that Hammerite paint is wonderful for preventing rust. It comes in several colours, and either brushable or spray, so you could just clean it up with a Scotch-Brite and then brush on a bit of Hammerite Silver.. would be hardly noticable but would do the job. Just a thought.

[Bill ( My Pleasure)]

Thanks! I will keep my eye out for it. I don't recall seeing it in stores here in Northern California. As was said before it is important not to cover up damage so one has to be sure that that doen't happen. So careful inspection is a must!