100+ Gallons of Water Storage

[Inquisitor]

I have enjoyed reading all the great ideas for projects on this site and am looking forward to passing into that rarified air of 100 projects with Jack Sparrow. The idea of having a real shower and full kitchen are in the future. I am also anxious to get the mods page back so I can add my first meager projects.

THE NEED - LOTS OF WATER... For long showers, long stays and a happy admiral.

I've noticed all the bladder locations and wanted to throw this idea out for target practice.

I have a 26M and note the 1150 pounds of water equates to something like 130 gallons. Noting the configuration of the water ballast tank, most of it is up front with some in the two sizable runners going aft. As a WAG, lets say there's 100 gallons in the tank and the rest in the runners.
Would it not be possible to cut an access port in the top of the tank (say in the starboard side) so the vent hole is not bothered? Place a 100 gallon flexible bladder inside there and run piping out the top and either re-seal it by fiber glassing or put in some sealable port.

By benefits of placing the bladder here versus say under the rear bunks or anywhere else is:

1) Its free weight. You'd have it filled with lake/ocean water anyway. - If you had bladder(s) someplace else that would be in addition to your ballast water and not accounted for by the designer for performance or structural issues.
2) Its free volume. You wouldn't have to use the valuable dry volume from somewhere else.
3) As you use the water, let in more outside water - never any partial bladder sloshing around somewhere.
4) The bladder would have equalized pressure. Fresh on inside... lake/ocean water outside. Maybe it would last longer, less stretching, etc.
5) 100+ gallons... Some 50' yacht don't have that much. No fussing about conserving water.... "Yes, honey, I'll put in another propane tank to keep your water hot! No need to get out of the shower."

Any thoughts?

[NiceAft]

1150 pounds of water equals approximately 144 gallons.

Ray

[kmclemore]

As my great old Dad once taught me, "A pint's a pound, the world around"...

So... 144 gallons x 8 pints = 1152... which is a good rough estimate of the actual weight.

More accurately though, I believe that 1150 pounds of water should be 137.8 gallons. (I think 1 gallon of water weighs about 8.345 lbs., and one pound of water is about 0.12 gallons).

[Boblee]

For the aussies I have always worked on one Litre = one kg it may not be exactly right but it is near enough unless you are talking thousands of Litres and then the difference may mean something.
As for installing a bladder in the ballast tank, it would be one hull of a job as it would need to be tied at all corners to hold it so the only movement was vertical to stop it bunching up, then you would have the problem of getting the water out of it and into the boat and of course cleaning it may present problems.
Better to get Roger to add it as an optional extra at manufacture.

[Jack Sparrow]

If you are not intrested in fast motoring install a lock down bulb keel like the Black Pearl http://www.bwyachts.com/La%20Perla%20No ... Photos.htm and use the ballast tank for fresh water that should be enough. A handy hint is wash in salt water using liquid soap it works fine then rinse off with fresh water.

Jack Sparrow

[Boblee]

Besides the obvious problems with the bulb like no beaching and stresses lifting, there would probably be a problem when the tank was half empty as then the water would all swish to one side when he-eeling.
That aside it wouldn't be that hard to make a lead bulb like that especially as I have been collecting lead for years and have heaps of it here.
Just a pity it would be hard to recess it.

[RickJ]

As my great old Dad once taught me, "A pint's a pound, the world around"...

That should actually read "a pint's a pound the USA around"

An imperial pint as used in the UK and AFAIK anywhere else that pints/gallons are used outside North America, a pint's 20 oz, thus a gallon is 10 pounds. Causes loads of confusion between here & there when talking about liquid volumes, including things like MPG (at least the miles are the same - I think ).

Cheers, Rick

[Kelly Hanson East]

If we just went back to fathoms per fortnight all this unit stuff would be a lot easier...

[Inquisitor]

If we are going to use tight tolerances...

Here is the RCH

At 85 deg F. Pure water... no salt water, no pepper, no minerals...

8.310492392872696 lbs/gal.

Giving...
138.37928556270278708253121381646 gallons.

[Inquisitor]

Just re-reading these...
maybe I thinking about this wrong...
put in a tap and a bag full of Guiness.

How much does a pint of Guiness weigh?

Would it be adequate ballast?

[NiceAft]

How much Guiness are you drinking right now

Why is it again that you wish to carry so much water, or believe that you will need such a vast amount?

Ray

[Trouts Dream]

If its mostly for long hot showers. Recycle, filter, reheat. Just use low sudsing environmental soap/shampoo and the Admiral wil never know the difference.

[Inquisitor]

Actually, I was looking for constructive criticism toward the issue of such an installation from a knowledgeable group which is known to love to modify their boats for all sorts of reasons... performance, practicality or shear luxury... or just because they can and like to tinker... not to whether I needed counseling. I enjoy the humor, however, if justification is needed...

Philosophy 101... How much water is enough. Granted, 100 non imperial gallons is over the top lunacy. But what is enough...for a week in the Keys or a week in the Bahamas or a weekend on the lake? Yes, you can get it from port to port. But what if it cost you nothing in space and nothing in weight or performance to carry? Do I want the added the complexity of filters and the idea of recycling gray water back through a water heater like the Colman or http://www.bargainoutfitters.com/cb/cb. ... tid=222635 and its longevity? What about when I wanted to use that same water heater for water that goes into food or drinks? Do I get a second set of water lines (with or without heat) for potable water? Let's see... one set of pipes for potable water, one set for sea water use on dishes and cleaning. Hmm... do I have two faucets at the kitchen sink? One set of pipes for grey water for recycling in a shower and another for the fresh supply. Or is the more simple solution... just one set of potable water pipes that is used once and thrown overboard. Now that may sound a little non-green, but I don't know of anyone's house that uses such a system.
Now back to the issue of quantity... I've never lived on a boat with a limited water supply and doing things like sponge baths or squirt, stop, soap, re-squirt. The numbers I've heard... a house shower head runs about 1.5 gallons per minute. These water heaters handle a little less than that. Two people, maybe kids... drinking, food preparation, cleaning, rinsing off after a dip in the ocean with a nice stern mounted shower head like Jack's... I'm guessing at least 20 gallons. Am I way off?
Now a twenty gallon fresh tank... 166 lbs (give or take) that's another person's weight I'm carrying and that is only for one day's worth.

So the request remains... what might the issues be with cutting a hole in the ballast tank top and putting a bladder inside?

* As Boblee pointed out there might be an issue with bunching. - I can imagine that it would be impossible to fill with fresh water if the ballast tank was filled first as it would bunch it into a pancake inside the ballast tank. Makes sense... so that's an issue of timing? Fill fresh water first, then ballast water.
* Tying in the corners. If I was trying to max out and get the full 100 gallons, I would agree whole heartedly. But say if I had a 50 gallon bladder, I wondering if that would be ok to just let it go where it wants to. Once water is equalized, its not really going to move around inside.
* Getting water out - I envision a hose going to a threw-hull type fitting mounted at the top of the ballast tank with a couple of feet inside to let the bladder move around. Would that work?
* Cleaning - What kind of cleaning cycle is typical? What does it entail? Can it be done by simply flushing a cleaning solution into the bladder and then empting it out? Maybe an access port is necessary instead of re-glassing.
* How large a hole would I have to cut to fit a 50 gallon bladder through? I wouldn't have a clue. I've never seen one of the bladders as it comes packaged. I was hoping something the size of my hand would be enough so I could push it through and stick my arm in to lay it out inside.

Any ideas, insight, constructive criticism, humor is welcome... bring it on.

[Jack Sparrow]

I would look at installing a 12 volt solar powered desalination plant as much water as you want, food would be your limiting factor on long distance trips. Generator/solar/wind generator mix may be the go, this would also solve your power problem that you would have to over come. The first issue with the installation I looked at was the maintainance point of view and I can not resolve it.

Jack Sparrow

http://www.containedenergy.com/html/sol ... aking.html

http://www.icon.co.za/~rsep/Solar%20Desalination.htm

[Kelly Hanson East]

There was a thread of mine on water tanks and how much water we use on a week trip on Cuttyhunk..Ill try to find link

Maybe search water tank Cuttyhunk