Solar Charging Panel Question

[Tahoe Jack]

I use the Honda 2000 situated as shown by Moe in his pic series. Had a Sunbrella bag made, and added a nylon strap loop to secure it in place. We placed waterproof plugs on adjacent port and starboard to accept the dual output of AC and DC, routed the wiring interally to our primary panels/breakers. We can remove the Honda in a few seconds, so use it primarily only on overnites. Use automotive insulated engine compartment felt with bonded reflective aluminum to avoid hull damage from exhaust. Thinking about a magnetically attached exhaust elbow per Moe's idea. Disharge hose extended to water would be super quiet, but backpressure wouldn't be good for Honda. We added a new aft splash protection using aluminum slot guides with Pergo flooring material inserts.
BTW, These also work well for displaying your 'Port name'. Jack

[Moe]

The heart of the Honda EU series is a three-phase alternator, rectified and fed to a pure sine wave inverter. They also have a separate DC generator winding for battery charging.

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Moe

[kmclemore]

This is not an AC generator, it's a DC generator with a built in DC to AC inverter. Cheap inverters deliver so-called "modified" sine waves, and some more sensitive appliances may not perform as well with MSW current. This is almost certainly a cheap inverter; a 1000W true sine wave inverter by itself would run over $500.

True, Chip, it may be a DC-to-AC unit, but as to the sine wave the Yamaha folks say:

"The EF1000iS - with its inverter system - features Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) so Voltage stability is within 1%, and Frequency stability is 0.1 HZ. Its pure sine wave is as clean or cleaner than commercial power, improving the efficiency and versatility of your electronic equipment and accessories compared to other portable power."

...and the Honda folks say:

"The Honda Inverter Technology makes this generator ideally suited for use with sensitive electronics (e.g., computer, fax, printer, and telephone, stereo) because the generator produces a clean sine wave of energy that prevents surging."

Sounds like a pretty good inverter to me... are you saying this would be a problem?

[kenny]

Meo, thanks for the pics and input. I assume from your first post you are then able to run a 1000 KW cooking rated unit, which I've seen have data tags ranging from 1350-1500 KW input, or equivalent when rated with input amps on the tag.
What other uses have you found and do you have it wired in similarly to Tahoe Jack, or just plug it into where you'd run marina power if available?

Tahoe Jack, thanks also for your imput on the semi pemanent intall.

[Moe]

Yes, we can run our 1500W UL tagged (1000W cooking power) microwave with one EU2000.

We just got the 26X, so I'm not sure if we're even going to install a shorepower connection. Might just use an extension cord from shore power or generator to a battery charger.

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Moe

[Chip Hindes]

Sounds like a pretty good inverter to me... are you saying this would be a problem?

I'm not sure, I'm not a power generation expert, and my intent is not to bad mouth these generators. I've got my eye on one myself. I already have one of the cheaper inverters, a 600W Xantrex, which puts out MSW, on my boat. So far it's powered everything I've asked it to power without incident.

However, the terminology used in the inverter literature is "True Sine Wave" (TSW) and I note that though Honda and Yamaha stress clean power, accurate voltage and frequency regulation, yadda yadda, and both use the term "pure sine wave", neither of them uses the term TSW. Are "true sine wave" and "pure sine wave" the same thing? I don't know. Could be only a matter of semantics.

However, for your consideration: A 1000W Xantrex TSW 12VDC to 120VAC inverter costs $799. Yamaha can not only do the inverter for less, but they appear to be throwing in the motor and generator for free. Something doesn't quite add up.

Interestingly, the West Marine Advisor says about non-TSW output is that some stuff "may not perform as well". WTH does that mean?

I'm quite sure either of these generators will work for most if not all applications we have on our boats.

[kmclemore]

Well, I suppose the only 110v equipment I'd be running that may be sine-wave dependent would be my computer... but as it's an IBM ThinkPad, it's pretty immune since its power supply changes the 110v back to 16v anyway - no sine-wave worries there.

[Chip Hindes]

Same with my Dell laptop. It runs off the Xantrex MSW inverter just fine.

[Moe]

You can't compare the inverters in portable generators with the typical 12VDC inverter.

Inverters that operate off 12VDC require high-amperage switching components in the front end, as well as a substantial step-up transformer. The alternators in portable generators provide the higher required input voltage natively, and don't require these components.

It's no surprise to me they're nearly the same cost, especially considering the one-piece block that serves as the housing for all components.

--
Moe

[jklightner]

I've been thinking of adding a wind powered generator to my boat. This would provide charging while sailing, and the motor would provide charging while motoring. Has anyone else looked into those?

[kmclemore]

I've been thinking of adding a wind powered generator to my boat. .....Has anyone else looked into those?

I like the idea but three things hold me back - first, they are *very* expensive and unlike solar there's annual maintenance required... second, they are heavy and need to be placed high on the boat - not particularly good for a sailing vessel... and third, they can be rather noisy, although some of the latest and most expensive ones are less so.

I guess I only see windpower as truly practical on fairly large vessels where weight and space are not a problem... perhaps over 40' or so.

[Bruce Walters]

I have a flexible 10 watt panel I have on the space between the windows in front of the mast. It is attached with velco tape so can be removed when trailoring.

This is the fourth summer and as has done a good job of keeping my two group 27 house batteries charged. Because of the small size of the panel and because it feeds two batteries, I need no regulator.

The boat is in the water at its' slip all week and generally used each weekend with a few mid week evening sails. On the weekends we usually have the CD player on several hours per day, lights, and the TV / DVD /VCR for a movies, and VHF radio. The only really power hungry use is transmitting with Ham radio (20 amps!) - then I'm a man of few words.

Very simple, and cost was $90.00 four years ago.

Bruce

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Anybody have any idea how many watts it takes to run a 7900 BTU A/C unit or one of those smaller marine units (4500 or 5000 BTU I think)? How about your typical 26 cubic foot refrigerator?

With all the hurricanes around here, I've been thinking about getting a generator...but it sure would be cool if I could get something big enough to run either a wall unit A/C or a regular kitchen fridge as well as being alble to use it on the Mac.

[jklightner]

7,900 btu's would equal 2,315.2609 watt-hours or about 2.3 kw/hr.

Depending on your comfort level, typical houshold use would be in the 5kw - 10kw range in a pinch. Just be sure to turn off your main breaker so you don't try to power up the whole block, or zap some poor lineman trying to make repairs. I'll bet they are in short supply down there in FL now anyway.

[craiglaforce]

"7,900 btu's would equal 2,315.2609 watt-hours or about 2.3 kw"
Not really the case here.

This is not a question of simple conversion. Small air conditioners have a coefficient of performance of around 300%.

I was able to run a 5000 btu air conditioner with my el cheapo 800 watt generator I bought this year from bargain jims.
5000 btu needs about 500 watts to run.

5000 /2545 btu/hp X 745.67 watts/hp /3 = 488 watts. Inrush is about 3 times this number for a few seconds. The generator sounded like it was giving birth when the A/C started, then went back to normal once it started.

I have a 2500 watt generator for the house and it runs a2 large fridge, a small freezer a window air conditioner and a sump pump. But if you really want luxury then a larger one with a transfer switch might be in order.