On my 97'X the jib tracks are mounted right next to the companion way hatch. I noticed in the Macgregor video that there are an extra pair of tracks located between the lifeline stantions. Is this something that was discontinued in later models? Running my jib off the jib tracks I've had a lot of trouble with back winding the main sail. Let the jib out to stop the back wind and the jib luffs at the top. Any ideas? (other than getting a genoa to replace the jib)
Dik...
Jib Car Location
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jklightner
- Engineer
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- Location: Tacoma, WA
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Duane Dunn, Allegro
- Admiral
- Posts: 2459
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:41 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Bellevue, Wa '96 26x, Tohatsu 90 TLDI and Plug In Hybrid Electric drive
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Do you mean a track on the cabintop out at the staunchions? I've not seen a boat with tracks there.
The jib track is the one on the cabintop next to the companionway hatch. The genoa tracks are the ones along the front edges of the cockpit.
There is no reason you couldn't try flying the jib from the genoa tracks to see if you get a better angle. I think most people using a jib use the cabin top tracks so there must be a correct answer.
Also you might try setting the cars on the jib tracks further forward. This will reduce the twist in the sail and close the top more. That way you may be able to get the right sail shape without having to over sheet the sail and backwind the main. Make sure you are only sheeting in enough to stop the sail from luffing and get the telltales streaming. Don't over sheet. If it is just the leach flapping you might try tightening the leach cord. Just pull it until the flutter stops.
The jib track is the one on the cabintop next to the companionway hatch. The genoa tracks are the ones along the front edges of the cockpit.
There is no reason you couldn't try flying the jib from the genoa tracks to see if you get a better angle. I think most people using a jib use the cabin top tracks so there must be a correct answer.
Also you might try setting the cars on the jib tracks further forward. This will reduce the twist in the sail and close the top more. That way you may be able to get the right sail shape without having to over sheet the sail and backwind the main. Make sure you are only sheeting in enough to stop the sail from luffing and get the telltales streaming. Don't over sheet. If it is just the leach flapping you might try tightening the leach cord. Just pull it until the flutter stops.
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ESPERANZA
- First Officer
- Posts: 219
- Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 8:09 pm
- Location: Black Hills of S.D. 97 26X nisn 50
Duane,
Take a look at the Mac Video. Eric Hartle has a link to it on his web site. In the video there are additional tracks located out between the stantions along with the two next to the companion way hatch. Last week I did run the sheets back to the genoa cars and it did work OK, but for close hauled sailing I think I'll try the leech line adjustment. I did have the cars all the way forward. Have you had to adjust your leech lines before?
Dik...
Take a look at the Mac Video. Eric Hartle has a link to it on his web site. In the video there are additional tracks located out between the stantions along with the two next to the companion way hatch. Last week I did run the sheets back to the genoa cars and it did work OK, but for close hauled sailing I think I'll try the leech line adjustment. I did have the cars all the way forward. Have you had to adjust your leech lines before?
Dik...
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Duane Dunn, Allegro
- Admiral
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- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Bellevue, Wa '96 26x, Tohatsu 90 TLDI and Plug In Hybrid Electric drive
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I see what you are talking about in the brochure pictures. Looks like the cabintop track is 3/4 of the way out to the toe rail at a slight angle. My boat is a old '96 and it has the track inboard at the hatch. Perhaps for a few of the really early boats it was in the location shown on the brochure, but all the boats I've seen have it inboard. I don't think I'd want it where it is in the pictures. It's right in the way of the already limited walking space. I could see one all the way outboard at the toe rail.
The leach line is usually a set and for et adjustment. Slack it off until the edge flutters, pull it in just to when it stops. You don't want to cup the trailing edge to much. I would think moving the cars forward would give you the most bang for the buck. It gives a more downward pull on the leach which will add tension and reduce twist up at the upper part of the sail.
Unfortunately I can't speak from experience as I only have a furling genoa. I'm sure others here can add more.
The leach line is usually a set and for et adjustment. Slack it off until the edge flutters, pull it in just to when it stops. You don't want to cup the trailing edge to much. I would think moving the cars forward would give you the most bang for the buck. It gives a more downward pull on the leach which will add tension and reduce twist up at the upper part of the sail.
Unfortunately I can't speak from experience as I only have a furling genoa. I'm sure others here can add more.
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Frank C
I always thought that boat in the video was an early prototype, hence the outboard jib tracks. A jib-track at the toerail would clear the deck, but would add no benefit for sheeting the jib?
The entire benefit to a sizing the headsail within the foretriangle is to permit sheeting it inside the shrouds, as close to centerline as possible. This gives better pointing potential than the Genoa, which must be sheeted outboard of the shrouds.
Move jib cars forward to "power up" the sail, applying less tension on the sail's foot, and more downforce on the leech. This closes the twist for lighter winds. Jib cars are moved back for heavier air, applying more sheet tension to the foot of the sail, and permitting the top of the leech to twist-off, spilling excess air.
The entire benefit to a sizing the headsail within the foretriangle is to permit sheeting it inside the shrouds, as close to centerline as possible. This gives better pointing potential than the Genoa, which must be sheeted outboard of the shrouds.
Move jib cars forward to "power up" the sail, applying less tension on the sail's foot, and more downforce on the leech. This closes the twist for lighter winds. Jib cars are moved back for heavier air, applying more sheet tension to the foot of the sail, and permitting the top of the leech to twist-off, spilling excess air.
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ESPERANZA
- First Officer
- Posts: 219
- Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 8:09 pm
- Location: Black Hills of S.D. 97 26X nisn 50
Frank and Duane,
You guys are right on the money regarding sheeting the jib with the cars all the way forward. However when I did this I started back winding my main. Perhaps I'm playing with the wrong sail. Maybe I should be trying to get more of the bag out of my main by increasing mast bent and increasing out haul tension?
On windy days I like sheeting the jib off the genoa cars. It really stabilizes the boat as far as heeling. I managed to give an Oday 27 a run a few weeks back by doing this...
Frank, I'll bet you are right about this being a prototype set up. I would really like to figure out a way to put a toe rail on with holes for snatchblocks. This would give you a lot more options for sheeting the jib...
Dik...
You guys are right on the money regarding sheeting the jib with the cars all the way forward. However when I did this I started back winding my main. Perhaps I'm playing with the wrong sail. Maybe I should be trying to get more of the bag out of my main by increasing mast bent and increasing out haul tension?
On windy days I like sheeting the jib off the genoa cars. It really stabilizes the boat as far as heeling. I managed to give an Oday 27 a run a few weeks back by doing this...
Frank, I'll bet you are right about this being a prototype set up. I would really like to figure out a way to put a toe rail on with holes for snatchblocks. This would give you a lot more options for sheeting the jib...
Dik...
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Frank C
Dik,
I've seen some pretty windy days, but it never occurred to me to aft-sheet the jib. Now that you mention it .... hmmmm. You'd sheed the jib inside the shrouds, tightly flat, but to the aft-tracks .... might permit sails to be set wider w/ less heel?
On my days w/heaviest winds (~20+), I've managed decent trim by stretching the reefed mainsail as you described. I also needed the Garhauer RV for its 12:1 vang-sheeting. Having accomplished a nice, flat, reefed main, the jib seemed plenty happy using the cabin tracks. We enjoyed good speeds, but heel is still too great at 25+ and weatherhelm just barely in check.
Never yet got caught in that kind of wind with the 135 Genoa up. In reverse of your suggestion, I've kinda figured that I'd try reefing it afore the shrouds and sheeting it to the cabintop. Now you've got me wondering.
I've seen some pretty windy days, but it never occurred to me to aft-sheet the jib. Now that you mention it .... hmmmm. You'd sheed the jib inside the shrouds, tightly flat, but to the aft-tracks .... might permit sails to be set wider w/ less heel?
On my days w/heaviest winds (~20+), I've managed decent trim by stretching the reefed mainsail as you described. I also needed the Garhauer RV for its 12:1 vang-sheeting. Having accomplished a nice, flat, reefed main, the jib seemed plenty happy using the cabin tracks. We enjoyed good speeds, but heel is still too great at 25+ and weatherhelm just barely in check.
Never yet got caught in that kind of wind with the 135 Genoa up. In reverse of your suggestion, I've kinda figured that I'd try reefing it afore the shrouds and sheeting it to the cabintop. Now you've got me wondering.
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ESPERANZA
- First Officer
- Posts: 219
- Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 8:09 pm
- Location: Black Hills of S.D. 97 26X nisn 50
Frank,
Give it a try, like I said we were chasing an ODay 27 and there was a Mac 26C as well. Both were heeling more than we were.
But getting the jib sheeted out a little further from the mast is what I wanted to accomplish and thought that may be why that prototype had the jib tracks out by the stantions. It would be located ahead of the shrouds and about 12 to 15 inches further out from the mast.
Lots of things to experiment with...
I've got another question for you guys as well regarding the boat sitting level in the water fore and aft. Mine sits a good three inches higher at the bow and my ballast vent is located in the companionway step. I don't think I'm getting the tank full with the bow up like that. Any suggestions?
Dik...
Give it a try, like I said we were chasing an ODay 27 and there was a Mac 26C as well. Both were heeling more than we were.
But getting the jib sheeted out a little further from the mast is what I wanted to accomplish and thought that may be why that prototype had the jib tracks out by the stantions. It would be located ahead of the shrouds and about 12 to 15 inches further out from the mast.
Lots of things to experiment with...
I've got another question for you guys as well regarding the boat sitting level in the water fore and aft. Mine sits a good three inches higher at the bow and my ballast vent is located in the companionway step. I don't think I'm getting the tank full with the bow up like that. Any suggestions?
Dik...
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Duane Dunn, Allegro
- Admiral
- Posts: 2459
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:41 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Bellevue, Wa '96 26x, Tohatsu 90 TLDI and Plug In Hybrid Electric drive
- Contact:
Even as I have continued to add more and more stuff, mine still sits amazingly level. Early this season I seemed to be a bit port heavy and made a effort to store more on the starboard side. If you look at my storage plan, http://www.ddunn.org/storage.htm , you'll see we carry a lot of stuff. I guess a fair bit is forward, two anchors and chain, 10 gal water, etc, but we don't make a great effort to maximize this. I was sure when I added the 24 gallons of gas this summer I'd be aft heavy but the boat still is level. The aft berth still carries a lot of stuff.
In this picture we are at anchor 2-1/2 weeks into our recent 23 day trip. Everything is on board except the 6 hp dinghy motor (57lbs) on it's bracket on the transom and the dinghy itself (75lbs) up on deck on the bow.
Things are nice and level. The picture is with full ballast.
We have the under step vent as well. When filling I have to watch closely or when the tank reaches full the water will burp out the vent hole. I don't hear a lot of sloshing or burping when sealed so I think the tank is pretty near full. I know that is why they switched to the forward vent, to get the last of the air bubble out and the tank all the way full.
I'd pay close attention to where you store things. Try to get it forward and see if you can adjust the trim.
In this picture we are at anchor 2-1/2 weeks into our recent 23 day trip. Everything is on board except the 6 hp dinghy motor (57lbs) on it's bracket on the transom and the dinghy itself (75lbs) up on deck on the bow.
Things are nice and level. The picture is with full ballast.
We have the under step vent as well. When filling I have to watch closely or when the tank reaches full the water will burp out the vent hole. I don't hear a lot of sloshing or burping when sealed so I think the tank is pretty near full. I know that is why they switched to the forward vent, to get the last of the air bubble out and the tank all the way full.
I'd pay close attention to where you store things. Try to get it forward and see if you can adjust the trim.
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craiglaforce
- Captain
- Posts: 831
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 8:30 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Houston, Tx
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Frank C
Since my motor is heavier (335) than most, I've always been extra cautious when loading. All galley stuff goes where you'd expect, but I stow all tools and spares on the forward cabin sole, water jugs under the forward dinette seat. Then the rolled plastic dinghy and all clothing, blankets, etc on the vberth. The only things stowed aft are life jackets, mast raising gear, fenders and spare lines.ESPERANZA wrote:I've got another question for you guys as well regarding the boat sitting level in the water fore and aft. Mine sits a good three inches higher at the bow and my ballast vent is located in the companionway step. I don't think I'm getting the tank full with the bow up like that. Any suggestions? Dik...
Of course filling the ballast is a lot easier on models with the ballast vent forward. But even on my 2000, I like to stand at the bow pulpit for the final minute or two and have a helper close the stern valve. As Duane mentioned above, mine floats true to the factory lines, and yours should too.
Lots of owners have drilled a new vent hole forward, but I'm not sure exactly where. I believe the later boats have a slight bump on the forward tank, but that's not really critical. It's simply a one-inch hole with a rubber expansion plug that you can buy in Home Depot. You could surround the hole with a piece of 4" PVC (about same height) and just glue it down with 5200. Mine is plumbed as a passive vent up to the bow locker, using about 12 feet of vinyl hose.
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ESPERANZA
- First Officer
- Posts: 219
- Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 8:09 pm
- Location: Black Hills of S.D. 97 26X nisn 50
Craig,
Is your standard jib track next to the companionway hatch?
When I fill my ballast tank, I pull the vent plug and just walk away. Mine never gets to within three to four inches of the top of the vent hole. I read where you can back fill the tank by running in reverse to over fill the tank. I've done this as well. Doesn't seem to add much water to the tank and by lying in the slip for a day or two, the tank level seems to drop back to the three to four inch level again.
I've placed a couple of large friends at the fore deck to see if the boat would level but it doesn't seem to change.
Beings our boat is used mostly as a day sailor, we really don't have much stuff on it. Maybe it's just the way it is? In heavy air it does feel like a cork in a wshing machine. That's why I've been concerned about the ballast level...
Dik...
Is your standard jib track next to the companionway hatch?
When I fill my ballast tank, I pull the vent plug and just walk away. Mine never gets to within three to four inches of the top of the vent hole. I read where you can back fill the tank by running in reverse to over fill the tank. I've done this as well. Doesn't seem to add much water to the tank and by lying in the slip for a day or two, the tank level seems to drop back to the three to four inch level again.
I've placed a couple of large friends at the fore deck to see if the boat would level but it doesn't seem to change.
Beings our boat is used mostly as a day sailor, we really don't have much stuff on it. Maybe it's just the way it is? In heavy air it does feel like a cork in a wshing machine. That's why I've been concerned about the ballast level...
Dik...