electric coolers

[Orion]

I have a 50hp Honda.....with a dual marine battery setup......will it power a 65w Wayco portable cooler as is? If so how long do you think I will have to run the motor to keep the fridge running without draining the batteries? If not, what additional sources of energy should I have? ie. solar panel, wind generator, an (evil) gas generator....
I appreciate any input you can provide....thanks

thanks for all the input guys.......sorry about not providing enough info....

We have a 97 X and are the original owners....the Honda is a 98, also original. We have been cruising the North Channel and have been using the cooler method. We have a small "day" cooler which is fed daily from a five day ice cooler that is stowed in the stern berth. The five day cooler holds a block of ice as well as bags of cubed. The Mac cooler under the seat holds our perishable and starts the cruise with home made "contained" ice. The homemade blocks are usually good for about 3 days. We then move the block of ice from the 5 day into the Mac cooler....that is often good for a day or two. We are then forced to buy marina ice.....now things change..... This is why we are looking at a fridge. The water from the block spoils the food. The problem is not cold beer ....we have that handled .....it is the water in the food cooler that is a problem.

The manual indicates it is a 10amp charging system. We have not purchased a fridge yet. We were thinking that we would put the fridge under the table. The plan was to integrate it into a new custom table top. Meaning the top of the fridge would become part of the new table/nav station. We were also thinking that we would install a separate battery system comprised of two 6 volt batteries in series.

Are we drunk?

liz and greg

[tangentair]

Please check your motor manual/specs and tell us what the output of the alternator is?

[Chinook]

Lots of variables play into this, including percent of time sailing vs motoring, amount of time between motor operation (ie: at anchor layover days), air and water temps, and temp you set the frig at. I set up an Engel 35 frig, which is supported by a pair of 6 volt golf cart batteries in series for house battery. I also have a 65 watt solar panel. The frig is installed in the space where the stock ice chest went, and I've wrapped it with extra styrofoam insulation. I've added ventilation cutouts to make sure the compressor gets good air circulation. The frig is direct wired to the battery, and in-line fused. This makes it as efficient as possible. On the Sea of Cortez this spring, the combination of periodic motor charging plus solar panel charging kept the house batteries in good shape, never drawing down below 12.3 volts, even after 3 or 4 days without running the 50 hp outboard. Kept food at 40 degrees the whole time. Air temps from mid 80's to mid 90's during the day, water temps high 60's to low 70's most of the time. Strong sun exposure most of the time. This summer, on a 2 week cruise of the San Juans, we got similar performance. Solar exposure less intense and a few cloudy days, but that was offset by cooler air and water temps, plus more frequent motoring. I figure the frig draws between 1 and 2 amps when cycling, and with the extra insulation, it runs way less than half the time. I estimate 10 to 12 amp hours of draw in a 24 hour period. I'm estimating I got close to 20 amp hours per day out of the solar panel while on the Sea of Cortez. These numbers are consistent with daily voltage readings I took for the house battery while down south. I suspect that, up north during cloudy periods, I would start losing ground with the battery unless I ran the motor for extended periods at least every other day. I need more experience and observations in northern latitudes. By the way, I seem to recall that the Engel is rated to be a little more efficient than the Wayco unit. Engel has a max draw of 2.7 amps. Also, the Engel 35 has dimensions which fit in the ice chest space, while the Wayco won't fit. That means it has to sit under the table or in the aisle. That makes it more awkward to move around, and also puts it in a less efficient location, temp wise. When it's in the ice chest space, it has the benefit of being in the bilge space, which gets cooled by water outside the hull.

[Hamin' X]

Also, you need to know the average power consumption of the cooler, 65W is probably max. To give you an idea, 65W at 12V= ~5.5 amps. If you have a 50% duty cycle that equals 2.25 amps. 2.25 amp/hr will draw down the typical Group 24 marine battery to 50% in about 16 hours. As tangentair has requested, we need to know the output of your alternator to be able to figure charge times.

~Rich

[johnnyonspot]

As far as a backup, or even primary power source, I recommend this solution below. Its very compact and rarely needs refueling.

Mr. Fusion!


I hear WM has them in stock, but they can probably be found cheaper at Defender. Or perhaps take one off of a salvaged Delorean and then backfit it to your Mac.

[March]

Chinook is right, the Waeco won't fit as neatly under the starboard seat. But now that you have it, you may want to raise the seat a little rather than buy a different fridge: I did it by cutting a marine plywood cover to the seat and glueing a stip of rigid boam about 2-3 inches wide around the edge That raises the top enough. to allow the cooler to fit. Put the cushion on top, and you are STILL able to sit at the table.
My experience with Waeco has been good: Rich is right, about 16 hours to bring the battery down to 50%. Motoring for something like 30 minutes to an hour should bring it back--that a guesstimate, o0f course, but if you have the output, you cvan be more precise.
Or a 65 W solar panel--and plenty of sunshine

[DaveB]

I live in SW Florida were the water Temps been 87 degrees for the last 3 mo. and avarage 84 degrees for 5 mo. out of the yr.
There is no unit for refig. that I can be satisfied in a X because there is no air volume for circulation and a unit like the Engel will fry you out of the cabin ! Even the Adler Barber water cooled unit (requires a thru hull seacock) draws 2.5 amps on avarage here and the air cooled draws 3.2 amps. I had the air cooled unit while traveling on my 35 Ft. Sailboat and powered it with 10 amps, 15 knot wind generator I built that worked fine for the Carribean in the trade Winds I sailed for 3 yrs. and considered best for small boats, otherwise you would need a engine driven operated Cold Plate that you need to run 1-1/2 hr a day to freeze the cold plate.
A solar panel at my Latitude would work best but you, still need the water cooling system and still gets hot below.
Unless there is someone out there that has a Brain Storm Idea that works I will contuie freezeing 1 gal. jugs and putting them in my 5 day cooler and also used for my drinking water.
The beer goes in another 5 day cooler with block Ice and food,2-gal.frozzen Ice Tea goes in another 5 day cooler.
Works for me when temps are 93-95 degrees and water temps 87-89 degrees.
Storage: one in cooler box under setee, 1 under table, one starboard side Vberth. (we both sleep under cockpit)
I can do at least 6 days with this arragement, winter is comeing and last much longer, always had Ice left.
Up above ..say 30 latitude , you probably would enjoy a Engel that would warm you thru the cold nights. I would expect the 35 or 45 to draw 2 amps with air temps 75-80 degrees and there max. at 2.7 amps (probably 3.2 amps) under freeze settings. I been cking them out for 2 yrs now and they can't work down here in the south.
Wind Generators (Sail in the Trade Winds) they don't work in the states most of the time due to lack of constint wind.
Solar, best the closer you get to S. Latitude's and in Latitude's above 26 North, expect less output the higher in Latitude you are.
Dave

[Oskar 26M]

Waeco also have these RAPS Battery packs which are good for 36 amp hours or about 18 hours of normal use. They are fairly light and portable and can be charge from your car, boat or mains.

Its yet another thing to cart on board but they are quite good for conserving/protecting the boat batteries

[Chinook]

I have no experience with water temps above 75 degrees, but can appreciate the need to avoid heat sources when water is 85 degrees, and air is even hotter. We had air temps up to 95 in the Sea of Cortez this spring, but water temp then was still relatively cool. On hot days, we tended to stay in the cockpit, under shade of bimini or shade tarp, with the possibility of a breeze. My ventilation scheme for the Engel consists of a rectangular louvered vent under the table, in line with the compressor motor in the frig, and another louvered vent cut into the head. I have a 4" solar powered ventilation fan installed in the head window, and set to exhaust. Another solar fan is set to blow in, and mounted on the forward hatch. This arrangement helps with air flow. We also have a custom sewn forward hatch bug net and also netting for the companionway and a large one that covers the entire cockpit. This allows us to open things up when at anchor and not get eaten alive, if there are bugs around.

[James V]

A 1000W or 2000W generator would do you quite well and you can use at home.

Your motor will charge best when the batteries are down at their lowest. I expect charge times of 3 to 4 hrs per day with your motor without any other systems charging the batteries. The gen will use less fuel and will work without wind or sun. You will need a batter charger of 20 amps or more. I would question on how much charge the batteries can take per hour before buying the charger.

[opie]

Just another vote and testimony for freezing drinking water in 1 gallon milk jugs or 1/2 gallon juice jugs. Lasts me three days. No sloshing water in the ice chest as you get with a bag of melting ice. And you drink the ice water as it melts. Keep the orig ice chest in the original X under-seat position. Not having amp draw is one less headache.

[Kelly Hanson East]

Anything under 5 days, its hard to beat the ice solution. indeed. We go as long as 8 days with recharging ice once. Maybe you cant do this down South.

[DaveB]

Kelly, on my 5 day trips to the Keys I have one 5 day cooler that is used for storeing Large Block Ice and fill the gaps with cubed Ice, this is not opened for 3 days and when I do start useing it will be my supply for other coolers until last day when anything left goes into one cooler includeing warm beer in storage. I could go for 7-8 days in July down here and have the Ice as usually the 5th day I still have large blocks left over (why I put the warm beer in).
I freeze my own blocks but would love to get a deep freezer that brings it down to -20 to -32 degrees quick.(this makes the Ice to last much longer)
If I end up doing two weeks trips I will get a small deep freezer and have the cooler already at 40 degrees before I put Ice in.
Block ice is getting harder to find and is not deep freezed and the size is not big enough.
This also I can use as shower water.
If going on a 3 week trip and no Ice avaliable, I would do the above but put saw dust inside to cover top of lid and wouldn't open it for 6 days.
I don't use the Vberth and good place to put the coolers.
Dave

Anything under 5 days, its hard to beat the ice solution. indeed. We go as long as 8 days with recharging ice once. Maybe you cant do this down South.

[waternwaves]

Still seems that the freezer solution is better for the mac... At least the ice you make you can use in your settee cooler. smaller space.....

Has anyone tried running the evaporator coils into the ballast tank to remove some of the heat from the boat??

Cold drink Ice is pretty important........

[DaveB]

Most water cooling systems are either thru a water pump or external pipeing under the keel (we don't have that option).
Running copper tubeing inside the Ballast tank would heat the contained water so hot to cause major problems with the fiberglass layup and would not cool the lines.
You need exterior water to do this. Applies for both AC and Refig.
Water cooling pumps are best for here in FL. But I ran a Adler Barber air cooled for 3 yrs off a wind generator in the Carribean were the trades winds blows.
The recent mod for a 120 watt solar panel would work well down here for a air cooled fridge as the power output would have enough to put a fan to derect the air from compressor outside. (down side is ,probably cost more than $1200 for a 120 watt system) but if you do a lot of cruiseing maybe worth the sound of silance.

Dave



(Has anyone tried running the evaporator coils into the ballast tank to remove some of the heat from the boat??

Cold drink Ice is pretty important........)[/quote]