So what's the final verdict on the Muscle Head?

AKCoastie · Post by **AKCoastie** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:02 am

For the folks that have been sailing with the Muscle Head for a few weeks now, what's your final verdict on performance, ease of use, overall opinion, etc?

Hardcrab · Post by **Hardcrab** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:21 pm

Yes!
All of that, plus what are the typical winds you sail in to base your experience on?
Thanks for any insight.
We're chomping at the bit to buy, but wondering about wind levels versus performance gains (or losses?).

Post by **NiceAft** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:32 pm

In low wind conditions, the sail performs well. You can feel the extra power.

In moderate winds, the sail tends to overpower the boat. In different winds, in order to maintain control over the boat, I have to experiment with sail size in the roller furler Genoa to see/feel the best combination.

In some winds where I would have not reefed the main, I now do reef. I have not yet reefed beyond the first reefing position.

The one big pain, is the top most batten. One can not lower the main enough, so as to permit using a sail cover. Some have decide to not use the topmost slug. This will permit the top of the sail to fall flat when flaking the main. My choice has been to remove the top batten when I want to use the sail cover. If I don't use the cover, I just leave the batten in. The main then looks like a sailfish. I am getting tired of removing that batten, so I may just start not using the top most slug. The problem is a design flaw, minor, but there, and that choice bothers me

Hey

That should be the worst thing that ever happens to me

Ray

Captain Jim · Post by **Captain Jim** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:04 pm

Ray,

What do you consider light winds? What do you consider moderate winds? Do you consider moderate winds as 15 to 20 knts., I am trying to figure out the value of the musclehead mainsail, considering the $$$. I was planning on buying one for the BOLD VENTURE for next season, but now I am not sure. Please keep us appraised of your future findings. Great info. I wonder if others are finding the same results as you?

I wonder if K-H will fix the design flaw?

I purchased a new musclehead foresail and I am quite happy with it.

Fair winds,
Jim

PS: Did you make it up to Lake George yet this summer. We will be returning Sept. 08 and staying to Nov. 01, 2009

Terry · Post by **Terry** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:47 am

Captain Jim wrote:Ray,
Great info. I wonder if others are finding the same results as you?

I wonder if K-H will fix the design flaw?
I purchased a new musclehead foresail and I am quite happy with it.

Fair winds,
Jim

I am not sure you could call it a design flaw but moreso a design difference.
I too bought the Musclehead/Fathead ail and am satisfied with it. I found the best way to deal with that top batten was the same as someone else. I bought a tiny little 'D' shackle with a captive pin and replaced the screw on attachment on the top batten with it. It now works fine, I can undo the little 'D' shackle and disconnect the top batten & board to lay it down, then when I am ready to sail again I re-connect it at the same time as I connect the main halyard. Sure beats pulling that stubborn batten in and out all the time but it is also yet one more rigging item to take care of at the beginning and end of each sail.
The top full battens help maintain better sail shape and the extra roach helps harness a bit more wind at the top of the sail but the extra large size is not the end all be all for more performance, you still have to trim and adjust your sails for various conditions in order to realize the extra potential of the Musclehead. It actually works a little better with the jib under some conditions, but with the genoa in lighter winds the two sails combined provide over 400 square feet of canvas, she really hauls then.
I am thinking that perhaps the heavier 5.4 ounce dacron will increase the sail lifespan since my oem mainsail is now limp as a dish rag, perhaps I should send it out for reconditioning, or should I just throw it out and maybe get another oem for a spare. I would eventuall like to aquire a bigger inventory of various sails.

Hardcrab · Post by **Hardcrab** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:19 am

Thanks for the info given so far.

Two questions still:
1.What range of numbers would you give to "light" ,"medium", and "heavy" winds?
(The San Fran Bay guys might think 15-18 knots is "light"

. And to them, it might be.

)

2. How are the sail slugs positioned in regards to reefing?
eg, Do you have to remove the lower slugs from the mast track to reef, or are they spaced out in such a way to allow reefing
without removing slugs?

Getting closer to pull the trigger.
Thanks.

delevi · Post by **delevi** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:35 am

you still have to trim and adjust your sails for various conditions in order to realize the extra potential of the Musclehead.

You mean the sail won't trim itself? What a waste of money!

My opinion is somewhat bias due to my windy pond, but I think the last thing the Mac needs is additional sail area, especially if you have the 150 genny. Spend your money on a high quality sail vs. one with bigger roach whith a that PITA top batten. Plus, for those who decide to install an adjustable backstay, the musclehead would eliminate this option since it wouldn't pass through. My Quantum main has a bit more roach than stock but not nearly as much as the musclehead and it still makes contact with the backstay during tacks & gybes. It passes no problem but if it were any roachier, it would hang up.

Just my 5 1/2 cents worth.

Cheers,
L.

Highlander · Post by **Highlander** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:19 am

Well their's always these options

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/m ... /GILGA.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/m ... _large.jpg

But I still have the sail kit off my canoe I could mount the mast on the stern !

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/m ... o/scan.jpg

But I think I'll finish off the other mods first

Anyway thats my options and this sign says I can voice my opion anytime
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/m ... 010019.jpg

J

mikelinmon · Post by **mikelinmon** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:07 am

How about some photos of the various mainsails folks have added to their Macgregor. I'd like to see them. We have made (had made by the various sailmakers) several mains and still use the Doyle. We will use a mass produced sail but might change shape which in this case means add roach. As you might guess, dealers in one area will object to more sail area but some areas will benifit from more roach. Here in Newport Beach, I am always begging Roger for more sail, you've seen the racing spinnaker that never made it to production and there have been other sails. I'm using a large roach main now. One advantage of te large roach is sailing without the jib or genoa. This rotating mast and deep daggerboard will sail Ok in a breeze bareheaded. So! Please post your photos of mainsails! If you have sailmaker who wants a piece of this, give him my number.
Mike Inmon

Terry · Post by **Terry** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:23 am

delevi wrote:
you still have to trim and adjust your sails for various conditions in order to realize the extra potential of the Musclehead.
You mean the sail won't trim itself? What a waste of money!
Gee Leon, you sound like one of the kids from the Art Linkletter show where kids say the darndest things!
My opinion is somewhat bias due to my windy pond, but I think the last thing the Mac needs is additional sail area, especially if you have the 150 genny. Spend your money on a high quality sail vs. one with bigger roach whith a that PITA top batten. Plus, for those who decide to install an adjustable backstay, the musclehead would eliminate this option since it wouldn't pass through. My Quantum main has a bit more roach than stock but not nearly as much as the musclehead and it still makes contact with the backstay during tacks & gybes. It passes no problem but if it were any roachier, it would hang up.

Just my 5 1/2 cents worth.

Cheers,
L.

In the San Francisco Bay one may not require any additional sail area but up here in the PNW we get all manner of winds from little puffs to big huffs and the extra sail area really counts in the puffs, even with the 150 genoa. One has to decide for themselves wether they want the backstays or the bigger roach but not both before discounting one or the other. Also the 5.4 ounce Musclehead is of a higher quality dacron than the oem main. The top slug with batten is a bit of a PITA but with the little replacement 'D' shackle it is not insurmountable, just another little item to take care of, it no longer bothers me like it did.
The Musclehead is only a couple hundred dollars more than the oem so when time comes for a replacement mainsail it is a very viable option to consider.

AWKIII · Post by **AWKIII** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:39 pm

Mike...

I really hope no one posts a picture of the Musclehead! There's a customer of ours in Philadelphia that forwarded some shots taken from another boat. The boat looks completely different with the sail.

Next thing I know it will be a factory option and you or Roger will take credit for it.

I am sure the folks over at CDI are just thrilled with the MacFurler, huh?

By the way, we are already selling the larger spinnaker that the factory did not put into production. It doesn't need a removable deck mounted pole either. It's all in the design.

Art

bastonjock · Post by **bastonjock** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:34 pm

All of my sails are from Arts loft,i am by no way an expert om sails but i am very happy with the C2000 series for my x,i preferr the flatter cut of the C2000 mainsail over the doyle,it really looked like it had a beer gut.Sailing with the spin up is just awesome,its a very pretty sail and i just love sitting behind it,its lazy sailing.

im still playing around with tweaking my rig,i now have a 26m mast on a 26x,i was considering fitting a 26m sail but was warned off of that by MacG,s in the UK,but as i have a spare 26m mast i may still have an attempt at flying a 26m mainsail.

Art would the musclehead work with the sweapt back spreaders on the X?

bscott · Post by **bscott** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:57 pm

bastonjock, my

has the

mast and the

swept back spreaders which I cut back 5". The

C2000 main is cut very flat and gives a perfect draft. I would NOT go with the MH on the

as I think it is too much sail aloft--but you've got the cruiser so you have the best combination of sails

Bob

Post by **NiceAft** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:03 pm

Art,

I'm a satisfied customer with the performance of your muscle-head mainsail, but, when you make a statement such as

I knew the top batten would probably be an issue for some.However, It is NOT a design flaw.

and then follow it up with

a D-Ring shackle will alleviate the problem.

, something ain't kosher here pal

Your telling us it's not a flaw, but an expected problem that is a pain in the aft

Something perceived, but ignored. We have never met, so I am going to assume that with all of your activities, you don't have an aft large enough to sit on both sides of the fence

I enjoy the sail, and speak highly of it, but leaving it to the customer to come up with their own solution to the perceived "problem" is wrong. You should have included the D-Ring shackle with the sail, and an explanation.

I have a different problem that I will e-mail you about when I am able to upload some photos.

Ray

Post by **NiceAft** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:33 pm

Art,

There is no argument here. Just thought exchanges.

I like the sail, I just have a challenge with that one aspect of it.

The problem with this sort of impersonal exchange is that one can not see the others face. You can't see a smile, or a tongue in cheek

You can't hear inflection in the voice, etc. The electronic words are sterile of intent, and emoticons just don't do it

Peace brother.

Ray

MacGregorSailors.com

MacGregorSailors.com

So what's the final verdict on the Muscle Head?

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