Help - Cracked hull!!

[Corsair II]

I'm new to sailing and have just encountered my first sailboat nightmare - and it's still on the trailer! I purchased a 1993 Mac 26S last fall in NC, trailered it to the Outer Banks, took lessons for 3 days, and then trailered it back to Indiana. I covered the boat with a tarp after having the motor winterized and waited for spring. After uncovering her, I trailered it to a local marine store to check on having the gear case replaced. After a few days, I drove by to check on the ordered parts and when I pulled up beside the boat, I saw a 12" crack in the hull at the water line on both sides of the boat. The fiberglass was pushed in at the rear of the bunk. The store owner thought that the tie down straps were possibly too tight and caused the damage. I took it to a fiberglass repair place (primarily powerboats) today to get an estimate. He said that he thought that the bunks were too short (@8' long) on the trailer (Traid) and that something had compromised the structure of the hull. Here are my questions:
1 - Has anyone encountered this problem, and if so - what did you do?
2 - Can the repair be done at a place that specializes in fiberglass repairs, but primarily on powerboats with occasional experience on sailboats?
3 - I am an hour from Sailboats Inc in Indianapolis, IN and 2 hours from Wawasee Boat Company in n. Ind. Would I be better having it repaired at one of these? Wawasee appears to be the best place of all and is a Mac. dealer, but they can't touch it until after July 4th.

Help!

[Ric K]

Corsair II,

Your problem is a tough one. the 26S is water ballasted, and the ballast tank is at or near the water line. IMHO you need to have sombody familiar with Mac Gregors inspect the boat and make sure the ballast tank has not been compromised. The ballast tank is generally the strongest part of the hull, but I would worry about the seams.

I'm assuming that the cracks are at the rear of the boat because you've metioned tie downs that might have been too tight, can you post some pictures?

A competent powerboat fiberglass repair shop should be able to do the repairs, as long as your ballast tank is ok.

I reccomend calling Bill at the Mac Gregor factory, and get his opinion on your problem, he knows exactly where your ballast tank is located. The phone # is: (949) 642-5379.

Best of luck! Keep us posted on your progress.

Ric K

[Corsair II]

Thanks for the phone number. I left the Mac at the shop so that they can take the time to evaluate the repair, so pictures won't be available for a few days. The first guy at the marine store ballparked a figure of $5,000-7,000 to repair it. Even though I will miss a good portion of the sailing season, I'm leaning at getting it repaired at Wawasee, as they are the only Mac dealer nearby.

[argonaut]

Cheer up. FRP boats are super repairable.
If you have any question what is possible with fiberglass check out the incredibly modified 26S called " Yumiko Maru."
That guy basically hacked the tail off his boat and bolted on a transom extension platform, along wiht other improvements like an anchor compartment. Unbelievable

I've seen hurricane damaged hulls restored to looking as good as new, the damaged area reinforced and re-faired by guys who knew what they were doing.

Pictures would really help folks here point you in the right direction.

Ice in the ballast tank could have damaged the tank, but a "leak down" pressure test could help discover hidden leaks in the ballast tank.

If it really is just surface cracking from the strap it should be a fairly painless repair. It is time consuming meticulous work, but a good glass guy can make it right.

The S series boat hulls are thin enough to "oil can", that is they can be pushed in with your hand and pop back out. Kind of disconcerting but that's how they were built.

[grady]

Thanks for the phone number. I left the Mac at the shop so that they can take the time to evaluate the repair, so pictures won't be available for a few days. The first guy at the marine store ballparked a figure of $5,000-7,000 to repair it. Even though I will miss a good portion of the sailing season, I'm leaning at getting it repaired at Wawasee, as they are the only Mac dealer nearby.

$5K to $7K for repair! wow if that is how much damage there really is it may be better just to buy another boat with a good hull and then use the best parts from both bots on yours. then you could have a good supply of spares or sell the extras. Just a thought.

[Sumner]

.......... The first guy at the marine store ballparked a figure of $5,000-7,000 to repair it. ..........

I would be definitely getting some other estimates on that repair. I think they were fishing to see what they could get away with. I haven't done glass work, but have a friend in Missouri that has done lots and with him as an adviser I'd be doing it myself. There are lots of good books out there on the subject. Also check out Duckworks...

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/

...I know that there is the safety issue, but still these boats aren't the Queen Mary. You could 'over-fix' it and have a pretty big safety margin.

Get the pictures up and let some of the guys have a look at what we are talking about. As far as the ballast tank goes, that should be pretty easy to see if it is leaking and as was mentioned it is a very strong part of the boat, so I'll bet it is ok. Some people have had tanks that did leak and they fixed them and it didn't seem to be a big deal, just some work.

Good luck,

Sum

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[Corsair II]

I trailered my damaged Mac26S to Wawasee Boat Co. yesterday. In getting her ready for the trip, I went inside to remove anything and everything so that they would have better access to assess the damage. Superficially, everything looked normal, but as I removed the cushions from the aft berth, there was standing water (4" deep) under the wooden panels. There was also standing water in the hull which was visible after removing the access panels, etc. I pumped all of this water out and then trailered her to the repair facility for an estimate. During the winter, I had covered it with a tarp and when water filled up the cockpit area, I poked holes in the tarp to let it drain into the cockpit, assuming that it would all drain out. Since it was draining immediatley, I assumed that it all drained out. I didn't have time for any pics yet, as I'm only getting an estimate at this point and can pick it up again next week. While I'm waiting on the bad news, I'm trying to consider my options and could use some input. Here are some questions:
1 - Any idea on how water got into the hull? This would obviously have changed the weight factor while trailering and I'm assuming could have led to the cracked hull.
2 - The initial reaction from the repair guy at WBC was - 'whoa, this looks pretty serious.' Assuming the worst ($7,000+), would you recommend buying another 26S for @$5K and parting out this one?
3 - Or is there a market for reselling this one, as is, to someone who would know its history and have the ability to repair it himself?
4 - Or buy a second 26S, shift the best gear to it, and then turn the damaged one into a DIY project where I try to fix it myself? I have looked all over the internet and can't find anything that shows structural diagrams of this boat. I have the facility to do this (40x80 pole barn) and have some body shop experience, but I'm not too thrilled with a 2-3 year project nor am I looking for a new hobby. I'm just wanting to learn how to sail a boat that floats and increase my sailing experience, not my boat building expertise.
5 - I paid $10K for the boat last fall; do I need to cut my losses and just bury it?

[Sumner]

I have already stated my opinion in the other post, but to reiterate: I can't believe that you couldn't find someone to fix that for under a thousand. Sure the match on the gel coat might not be perfect, but you would have a safe repair and the hull could also be painted at some time to make the repair totally invisible.

I wouldn't be afraid to have a non-boat place do the repair as long as the person was competent. I also can't see where the repair would take years if you did it. If you have bodywork experience I'll bet you could fix it to where you could sail the boat in a couple weekends. Where are you located?

Water in these boats is pretty common and usually goes in through the chain plates at the shrouds on the side of the boat and the joint where the deck meets the hull on the side of the boat. I have never heard of water entering the boat from the cockpit except one one case. The water from the cockpit drains to the outside through a line that goes through the lazarette and out the side. If that line is loose or missing in the laz then water from the cockpit will go down into the laz and it is connected to the aft berth area. I'm with you in thinking the damage was due to the weight of the water inside the boat.

I know you are discouraged now, but it is fixable for a lot less than they are quoting you.

c ya,

Sum

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[Corsair II]

The repair facility (Indiana) will be working up an estimate within a week, but can't get to repairing anything for over a month, so I will wait and see what kind of estimate and repairs they are calling for, pick it up, and then post some pictures. And by the way, I love your website and have enjoyed reading your mods. Does anyone have an idea what kind of structural support is used on the 26S and can you point me to a book that would have some info on it? Thanks.

[ChockFullOnuts22]

I agree with Sumner. The quotes you're receiving sound really inflated. Depending on how deep the crack is, fiberglass repair is actually pretty easy. Once you know the basics, it's really just a matter of careful prep work to the surface (the hull, in your case), and then mixing and application of materials. Not counting gel coat repair, you could have those cracks repaired (unless they go all the way through the hull) and seaworthy in a weekend or less for maybe $50 or $60 worth of DIY materials (assuming you already have a grinder and a sander in your workshop). If the inside hull is accessible, I might recommend glassing in some supports on the inside of the hull cracks, just for some added strength.

But if you don't want to do it yourself, try Sumner's suggestion and check out some non-marine fiberglass repair places. Goods and services have this funny habit of suddenly becoming much more expensive when you attach the words "boat" or "marine" to them.

[Doug91mac26s]

I agree with the previous posts, that the repair should not cost anywhere near what you've been quoted. And because they gave you such a high quote I'd stay clear of that place, sounds like a rip off!

All the water in the boat certainly sounds like it has everything to do with the cracks. Seems like the most feasible explanation is that the drain tubing inside the laz is leaking into that compartment, then getting into the aft berth area. I'd check the drain tube connections etc.

I'm curious about your trailer. Is it the original factory trailer with v-bunks? Or do the bunks run lengthwise, front to back?

One more thing, remember, usually anything can be fixed! Without seeing pictures it's hard to say.

[Sumner]

............ Does anyone have an idea what kind of structural support is used on the 26S and can you point me to a book that would have some info on it? Thanks.

Where are the cracks? You say at the waterline, but by the rear bunk or the front. I'm assuming you are saying the rear as the water seemed to be mostly there. Doug has a good point is the trailer a stock trailer with two V-bunks?

I have a car friend in Missouri that I would completely trust with the repair, but he is some distance from you. I'm sure you could get some good advice on line either here or on one of the other forums.

Most of the boat has an inner liner that would have to be cut to get to the repair if you were going to do most of it from the inside. There is no real structural areas except the sink area and the wall by it and the bulkhead back at the laz.

Just some thoughts as to how I would do something like this. I would want to do the repair mostly from the inside. If I was working where the inner liner is I'd take a cut-off wheel in a die grinder and cut out a fairly large area of the inner liner. This is going to create a lot of glass dust so take care. If I didn't know where the area was exactly I'd probably drill two very small holes (1/16 to 1/8 inch if I had a long enough bit) at the end of each crack through the hull and through the inner liner. Now you know where the crack is on the inside and a round hole at the end of the crack would be a good deal to help prevent it from growing longer.

Cut the inner liner out in that area. Take a grinder and grind well past the crack all the way around it enough to get into the fiberglass so you would have a good bond with the work. You don't want depth. Glass over the area with the proper materials (can't help you much there) and glass in some ribs as was mentioned. This should give you strength that would exceed the original hull as they are quite thin.

Then I would move to the outside and and use wax/grease remover on the crack area. I'd take the cut-off wheel and enlarge the crack slightly and just deep enough to get into the new glass. Mix up some epoxy and fill the crack almost to the top. Clean it up again with the cut-off wheel going very shallow now and then apply a gel coat to the crack to finish.

Then you are going to have to glass the inner liner back in place and that is going to be noticeable, but what the heck, you saved a $10,000 boat and will soon forget about it .

You will see the repair to some degree, but I would trust the boat completely. It is not like it would develop a catastrophic failure and sink.

The above is just a starting point for discussion. Hopefully some of the guys that have glassing experience will jump in and shoot holes in it and tell you what to do .

Good luck,

Sum

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[Corsair II]

The trailer is a Triad (dual axle) with bunks that run parallel with the boat. Not having seen an original trailer for the 26S, it seems that the bunks (@ 8'long) are too short for the boat, with the rear of the bunks pressing up against the hull and causing an indentation. When I asked about the indentations prior to buying it, the prev. owner said that it was normal. Does anyone have a pic. of an orig. Mac26S trailer (with bunks being visible)that I could see? Obviously, if the bunks or trailer configuration are incorrect, I need to resolve that issue before putting a repaired hull back on it. The cracks on both sides are at the same location as my aft tie down straps were located, which is also the same place where the indentations in the hull were being created by the aft end of the bunks. (Sorry but no pics for a week).

[Doug91mac26s]

These are not very good pictures, but here ya go.





These are pictures of my boat the day after I brought her home. I'm sure you'll be able to tell if yours looks anything like this. I have since replaced this trailer all together.

From your description it sounds like you do not have the original trailer. There has been a lot of discussion about v-bunks vs. bunks that run lengthwise. I'm a strong believer these 26C's as they are designed with the water ballast tank requires v-bunks for proper support. There have been a handful of posts I've seen describing just such damage. Your boat may have been okay for some time with that trailer, but with the added weight of the water, for who knows how long, was likely what caused the damage.

I would change the configuration of the bunks to the original intended design. You'll need to get some measurments as to exactly where to place the supports.

Too bad you can't provide pictures for a week! It's really hard to give good advice without seeing what you're dealing with.

The Triad dual axle part is good. The bunks that run parallel is not. I think your assesment of the 8' long bunks being too short is correct, which in my opinion, made a bad situation worse. With regard to this quote "the rear of the bunks pressing up against the hull and causing an indentation. When I asked about the indentations prior to buying it, the prev. owner said that it was normal." NO IT'S NOT NORMAL! I don't know if the seller intentionally misled you or if he was simply ignorant as to what normal is.

Indeed, the bunks or trailer configuration is incorrect! You are right, that issue will need to be resolved before putting a repaired hull back on the trailer. Tie down straps being too tight probably also contributed to the damage. Though under normal circumstances, with correct support the straps can be pretty tight. You can imagine how, improper support and a lot of added weight (water), and very tight tie down straps, working all together, could cause this damage.

These boats are designed to be light weight for trailering. Some areas of the hull are thin, but I'm conviced features of the hull such as the water ballast tank, the inner liner being bonded to the hull, the galley, even the headliner, all contribute to making the boat strong. An analogy might be corrugated cardboard, or an egg carton. The cardboard itself is thin, but combining all the elements together achieves great strength. As long as these boats are treated as intended, or per their engineered design, they are strong!

[Doug91mac26s]

Here's a few pic's of my new trailer, it may help you, since you have a dual axle trailer. My trailer is pretty long, I added two additional v-bunks front and back. The two in the middle are spaced the same as the original factory trailer, and provide support in the same spots on the boat as the original. The other two v-bunks don't matter much as to where they're placed. The forward one helps to get the bow up into the v-stop when putting the boat back on the trailer, in addition to providing added support.