Heating System on Mac 26x

[nedmiller]

Burning alcohol does appear to produce Carbon Monoxide. I have an Origo cooking stove and my Carbon Monoxide alarm goes off just making a pot of coffee if I don't turn on the galley exhaust fan. Is the Origo heater catalytic or is it vented? If so, then probably safe, although I would still have a carbon monoxide detector on board.
SILK

[Octaman]

nedmiller,

you are probably right. My Origo is not vented but I always make a point of leaving the forward hatch just slightly open. This creates a little draft with the gap between the main hatch and board that seems to provide a sufficient flow of oxygen.

Octaman

[kmclemore]

I find the real problem with burning anything in an enclosed space is the amount of condensation that builds up from the combustible material. When you combine the human-caused condensation with that being generated by the combustible, it results in a REALLY wet interior... and wet=cold every time.

As for me, a toasty sleeping bag, a few roll-up fleece blankets, good water-wicking underwear and a selection of nice wool sweaters works just fine.

Dress in layers, never wear cotton, keep everything dry, and keep the cabin ventilated... and you'll never freeze.

[yukonbob]

We have a Force 10 1000? (I think) mounted on the bulkhead in the head. Uses a propane tank plumbed in from the anchor locker and vented up through the deck. Has an auto shut off if the pilot goes out (thermo coupler shutoff) cause it uses no power. Kept us warm in -15'c (inch of ice in the rest of the bay around us by morning). Love it but the only downside is it leaves a half moon scar on you if happen to touch it. Keeps us warm though

[Declan]

Just got a Mac 26x. Wallas's new heater for smaller boats seems perfect. Called 22dt. Small, silent, Says 2.2kw equivalent power. I wonder will it be enough?
I know its been discussed in various places and hope someone can help me consolidate the info on the installation to Mac26x of a small wallas heater. I dont know which bendy thingos to buy. Plan to move into it soon in Ireland and its cold so I hope to get started now and order the parts. These extras are expensive and have to come from overseas.

[Rick Westlake]

Burning alcohol does appear to produce Carbon Monoxide. I have an Origo cooking stove and my Carbon Monoxide alarm goes off just making a pot of coffee if I don't turn on the galley exhaust fan. Is the Origo heater catalytic or is it vented? If so, then probably safe, although I would still have a carbon monoxide detector on board.
SILK

The Origo is neither catalytic nor vented. It's an open-flame heater (or stove). Vented stoves & heaters actually have a "smokestack" to carry the waste gases out of the boat entirely - examples are the Wallas paraffin stove and the Wallas, Force 10 and Dickinson heaters, all of which are vented to carry their waste gases out of the boat entirely. Any of these require you to hard-mount the heater and install a smoke pipe with a chimney on the cabin top.

Carbon monoxide (CO) is a product of the incomplete combustion of carbon, which is part of natural gas, propane, butane, kerosene, grain alcohol, and anything else you're likely to be able to carry as cooking/heating fuel. Complete combustion of carbon yields carbon dioxide (C02), which is less risky (0.01% CO in your breathing air is dangerous, compared to 5% CO2!) But any open flame is robbing oxygen from the atmosphere, so you need to ventilate the cabin if you're using an open-flame heater or cookstove.

I don't know about catalytic heaters in boats. Their waste gases may be free of carbon monoxide (CO). But you can't burn a hydrocarbon without getting water vapor (from hydrogen) and carbon dioxide (CO2). I have an Origo Heat Pal heater, but I also have two good-sized opening portlights and I keep them open when I'm using the Heat Pal or the butane stove.

[nedmiller]

Declan,

I took a look at the information on the 22DT and it seems to be about the perfect furnace for the Mac! It can produce almost twice as much heat as my Wallas 1300 and when it is really cold out, you will appreciate that. I think the 1300 is great if it is going to be above 40 degrees outside. If colder, I'd suggest a larger furnace. The 1300 also cannot be set up with a thermostat--it has only a toggle switch on the back of the furnace. I notice the 22Dt has a nice, remote thermostat. Wish I did!

You will have to carry another kind of fuel aboard so think about how you will store that. At full heat, you will burn about a 2 liter bottle of fuel in the evening and overnight (10 hours). It would have to be extremely cold to actually burn that much fuel. I consider the Wallas as safe as my heat at home--and I have CO detectors and smoke/fire alarms in both places. It appears as if the fume exhaust on the 22DT is the same as the 1300. You will need to figure out where you will put the furnace, exhaust vent pipe, and vent. The exhaust vent pipe is flexible and a double-insulated pipe--with combustion air entering between the outside and inside pipe--and combustion gases going out the inside pipe. This keeps the pipe a bit cooler than it would be but still hot to the touch. I covered mine with silicone tape and that prevents any hot surprises. This pipe cannot be more than 6' long so plan your exit within that parameter--shorter is better. Order enough! If you are an inch too shy, you have an expensive purchase to make. You will also need the exhaust gas fixture that mounts on the outside of the boat. It appears to be similar to what I have. You push and twist this and it seals it so water cannot enter. (Don't forget to open before starting heater!) I think this is a around a 2" diameter hole--22Dt may be bigger. Be sure you don't mount it where you might later wish you could put a dodger. This vent does get very hot so mount it somewhere you are unlikely to contact. They can be mounted on top or on the side, but keep it above the rub rail.

You will need the thermostat and wire--long enough for remote mounting. Wallas makes these using complex electronics. Do not expect to substitute an RV thermostat or anything. Just the on-off remote switch for my Wallas cost over $150!! That is the worst thing about the Wallas--things are horribly expensive. If in the US, don't expect a lot of distributors or repair shops--Scan Marine is the only one I know of and you pay what they ask.
It looks like you will also need to order a fresh air vent and pipe. You will want to mount this far away from the exhaust vent. You don't want to suck in the exhaust gases! My 1300 does not have this feature. I think if it did, I would try and mount the fresh air vent forward of the exhaust vent so it would be upwind at anchor---and other the opposite side of the boat if possible (probably won't be). The 'fuel pipe' for the 1300 is just clear plastic tubing like you can get at the hardware store and the fuel 'tank' is just a one gallon plastic jug.

I hope this helps.

SILK

[Catigale]

I dont do fire on boats well, unless Im cooking. Passive solutions all the way down to 0C work fine for us.

[Highlander]

candles are very cheap give you heat & light , thats what I used the first yr I had my boat the apple cented one makes it smell like someone is cooking apple pie in the boat then you get the crunches !!

J
PS I now use either my ceramic electric heater at my slip or an coleman propane heater but then again I have complete bilge area venting

[Declan]

Thanks Ned
Extremely helpful info just when I needed it. The dealer is now recommending instead a new wallace cooking stove that blows out hot air also. Says the ducting for the dt22 takes up a lot of space and the mac is too small for it. I believe I will go ahead with the dt22 because its best to get rid of that moisture and exhaust right? And that thermostat is so attractive. Would you have outlets or holes you could open and close in the hot air duct to regulate it coming out in various parts of the boat? Where would you put this heater if you were doing the instalation now.

[Hamin' X]

The Wallas cooktop/heater is vented to the outside, for both exhaust and combustion air.

~Rich

[Declan]

Anyone ever see an oven/cooker ( Wallas 87D or similar) in a Mac26? I wonder if it could be put on the floor? I see now that would have exhaust, vent and be a really warm cabin heater . weight 33kg .

[Declan]

Anyone ever cut a hole in the kitchen table top beside the sink and throw out the shelves there and in that space put an oven with cooking plates on top that would be roughly on level of the kitchen tabletop? Air blower on top of that. Might be the most stable place to put an oven if the piping would work and if its possible to cut that fiberglass. As I plan to live in it in cold weather and like cooking, an oven /cooker/blower would provide much more heat than the cooker/blower. D22 is more heat than a cooker/blower also.