Hydraulic steering cylinder

[Crikey]

Hi everybody! I'm new to the site, though have been following posts for over a year now. We (The admiral and me), have a new 2010 and I'm hoping to add a Teleflex Seastar hydraulic system to the other mods we've already done so far. My problem is that searching this site (as well as others) does not reveal which model of cylinder gives the best choice for the Macgregor dual rudders, a/o motor combination. I realize the piston throw needs to be matched to its attachment position on the internal rudder arm, but short of getting inside to look at the linkages and take measurements (too much snow on it, at present, to do this!), I can't find technical drawings of Rogers system, anywhere on the web that might provide me with configuration clues. Also, I know the combination of the cylinder and helm set results in the eventual turns to lock ratio. Does the higher or lower number have a particular advantage, when applied to a Macgregor? Is there a correlation here, to the steering effort as well?
There's some mighty fine brains out there, I know for sure! Any feedback would be much appreciated .....

Regards ... Ross

[mastreb]

Hi Ross,

Well, my isn't covered by snow, so I'll happily go check/photograph anything you want to know for this mod. In return I'd like to know how much it cost you and whether or not you feel like it was effective. I'm guessing you want to eliminate rudder slop? Have you tried some of the existing mods for this on the site?

I'm none too happy with the helm response under sail, but response under power seems perfectly fine, so I'm blaming the rudders more than the linkage. I'll likely put the IDA rudders on an do the work to make certain that everything is perfectly aligned. I'm presuming you've done all that before you would spend money on a hydraulic system?

Matt

[mastreb]

I looked into the various Seastar systems briefly (and having zero experience with this) but it seems to me you'd want to buy a kit made for low hp outboards that includes both the pump and the cylinder. Being designed to work together, you may not get the exact lock-to-lock rotations on the helm that you want but you'd have a reasonable starting point.

I found an excellent price on one here: $439 all-inclusive. http://www.foreandaftmarine.com/1-BAYSTAR.htm

You'd have to mount that cylinder in the transom well AND keep the linkage bar going inboard to the rudders in order to control the rudders as well. But it's a simple kit and should work just fine. Also, that kit is sized for up to a 150hp outboard, which our boats with rudders and linkage may well exceed in terms of force (but I tend to doubt it).

[mastreb]

I went through Teleflex's application guide, and for a 26' sailboat they recommend the following inboard cylinder: BA150-7TM

That cylinder has a 17.5" minimum length and a 24.5" maximum length for a seven inch total stroke. It's designed for inboard use however, so you'd have to mount it in such a way that it does not penetrate the hull, and I don't think there's 2+ feet of room for that on the port side of the transom.

I think this will be far easier to get right (and cheaper) with an outboard cylinder in the transom well.

[Wa2paa]

While I can't speak for first hand experience with a Mac 26 X , or 26M.. I have had a Teleflex Seastar Outboard System "Hydraulic" Steering , installed on My Girlfriends Odin 820. This project , was recently tested in Floridas "Charlotte Harbor for about 1 month of beta trials.

Also interfaced, to the Hydraulic steering system , was a Raymarine Autopilot, "Obsoleted, and Discontinued" but brand new Raymariine S1G for Inboard system. Lucky for Me, I had a good friend Do all the work, as He is experienced with Many installs under his belt, on this particular boat.

Additional parts were required, to connect the Odin's external mechanical rudders to the "Teleflex" trolling motor brackets.
The important thing to remember, is to match the Physical Type of Cylinder, to the install required, be it "Macgregor", "Odin", or Whatever. You must have enough clearance on in the Motor Well, for this assembly to work

For sure, this type of steering, eliminates the the slop, and wandering of original mechanical linkages from Both of These Types of Water Ballasted boats. The Boat, will take on a New , and enhanced steering personality, and coupled with an Auto pilot, make the these boats a Dream.

Have a look @ a YouTube video, regarding these types of installs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HXTnMt1Fd8
Best of Luck: Captain Jack

[Crikey]

Thanks for your kind replies Mastreb and Wa2paa! I am certainly going to look into the cylinder you mentioned Mastreb. My strong preference is to go with a Seastar internal system, attached to the port rudder pittman. This, combined with a BWY quick disconnect should provide a much lower loading while sailing and enable the eventual addition of an autopilot pump and computer (Raymarine definately!) to respond much more rapidly than with a retracted attached outboard flopping from side to side. My only concern at this point is whether the total throw of seven inches is sufficient, with this model, to supply centre to lock with the three and a half inches available, without getting too close to the pittman pivot point. This was why I tried to find engineering drawings of the rudder mechanics. The closer this becomes the more the loading goes through the roof - particularly with the outboard hooked up!
Taking the eventual choice of correct cylinder volume, and dividing it by one of the available Teleflex helm volumes will provide the total turns to lock ratio. I'm guessing somewhere around 6 to 1 will work best for a sailing mode (including a larger wheel)?
Not wanting to denigrate this fantastic boat - my previous was a 18.5 Sandpiper - but I've noticed from many users that a common desire is to eliminate as much steering slop as possible. For this reason I'm also going to try to add additional fixes in the form of Rod end (Heim) joints to the rudder cross linkages ( http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/CTGY/HR ) and mounted bearings (ceramic?) for the upper and lower points of the rudder posts ( http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/CTGY/Mounted-Bearings ). The CD rudder bushing solution combined with a bungee downhaul and pulley uphaul looks like the way to go also. I'll let you know what I come across with the cylinder!

Thanks Guys!
Ross