Another forestay failure/mast crash

[Hardcrab]

Well, it happened to us.

The forestay broke at the top and down came the mast.
The break was just like some others I've seen/read about.
It broke right at the upper Nicopress where the wire loop re-enters the nicopress.
Flush to slightly under flush.
For what it's worth, I just inspected it two weeks ago, and I did not notice anything wrong with unaided eyes.
Where it broke, I may not have seen it anyway.
Magnification would be the ticket next time.

Of the 19 strands, only 7 were shiny at the broken ends. The other strands were somewhat black, indicating a much longer break time.
No warning, just a snap sound.

We were on a port tack, boom to stbd, 8 to 10 kts wind, nothing heavy at all.
Genny/ furler went into the water on the stbd side and the mast went into the water on the port side, (into the wind??).
It did seem to fall slowly and not just crash down.

No injuries, just simple hardware.
Gooseneck assy, SS mast bottom plate, and mast hinge are tweaked and will be replaced rather than straightened.
Cheap enough from BWY.
Mast and boom are fine.

But now to the questions.
Any suggestions as to a better/bigger forestay replacement?
Does anyone know the overall exact length required if I get something made?
(CDI Furler is used)
I am somewhat leary of going factory replacement if there are bigger, better, stronger options.

For what it's worth, I don't raise and lower the mast very much at all. We keep the boat in a mast up storage lot.
I recall some guys going with an over-center, latch type type fitting to ease pinning the forestay.
Did you also use bigger wire along with it?

Thanks for any suggestions.

[Québec 1]

I just replaced my fore stay and cdi furler luff. I got the luff from cdi..200$ and the fore stay from BWY for around 50$. I am buzy sailing and stuff and will post my replacement pics and comments as soon as I can. I asked for the The fore stay for a 2003 26M and CDI FF2 and the delivered one was the perfect length.
Q1

[Catigale]

This has been hashed out many times, but to repeat...

the 19 strands, only 7 were shiny at the broken ends. The other strands were somewhat black, indicating a much longer break time.
No warning, just a snap sound.

...indicative of fatigue failure, and not load failure. Heavier rigging is not the answer, correct tensioning is.

[Québec 1]

This has been hashed out many times, but to repeat...

the 19 strands, only 7 were shiny at the broken ends. The other strands were somewhat black, indicating a much longer break time.
No warning, just a snap sound.

...indicative of fatigue failure, and not load failure. Heavier rigging is not the answer, correct tensioning is.

I think Mine got wrecked because my jib got loose during a wind storm and yanked at until some good sailor soul tied it back up.
Q1

[Hardcrab]

But Cat,
I do rig with correct tensioning, and have done so since day one.
No mast pumping, shock loading, loose shrouds, etc.
Ever.
Tight and well tuned, so I really can't imagine going down that road, IMHO.


Is it possible to be that the two different metals in direct contact is the culprit?
Copper nicopress and stainless and rainwater/salt air chewing away at the fitting?

I'm looking into the swag-less type compression fittings to see if that may be a better answer.

At least it takes the different type metals off the plate.

I'm also wondering now about the rest of the standing rigging.

Adding more info.
We might sail more than the average owner perhaps?
Almost 4000 NM have gone under the keel (GPS distance log kept) in our 5 years of ownership.
We average 20 3-day weekend trips per year with no off season like other geographically challenged owners have to endure.
But no heavy weather, 15-18kts is the most I have ever been out in.

Might that kind of usage contribute to the fatigue factor you mention?
And if so, isn't a heavier forestay solution the better choice?
Thanks.

[Hamin' X]

Did you have a toggle at the upper end of the stay? If not, this can put undue stress on the fitting while using a roller furler.

http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/v ... le#p219687

~Rich

[Hardcrab]

Hamin X,
Thanks for the reference.
I'm guess hard-headed.

At first glance, it looks like the added toggle just lowers the same forces seen on the nicopress/loop.
Instead of the "twisting forces" in the existing hound/setup, this just shifts the same twisting forces to the toggle, to my thinking.

No net change overall?

But I'll add it anyhow, as per the CDI manual.
Interesting.
The PO/dealer did not do this step.
It's as I got it.

Is this the common thread with the mast crashes seen on this forum??

[Hamin' X]

There have been several dismasting threads and the causes are usually related to improper tensioning. I just happened to remember Judy's comment and since I have a CDI furler, I checked mine.

~Rich

[parrothead]

Toggle? What toggle?? Our came with the optional CDI furler, but the upper end of the forestay looks just like the photo in the MacGregor manual - simply a loop in the end of the wire.



So I suppose this is just another failure, waiting to happen?

[Hardcrab]

Ditto parrotheads picture.
Only break open the loop in the middle and stand back.

[Hardcrab]

And does it look like the pictured forestay is a smaller diameter than the upper/lowers to anyone else???
I guess haven't paid that much attention to the whole thing until we almost wore the mast on our heads.

Four thicker stays fighting against the one thinner forestay??
What sense does that make?

I'm lost here.
Please help with the logic.
A quick education is needed.

[Hamin' X]

The side stays pull down and against each other, more than they do against the forestay.

~Rich

[c130king]

The side stays pull down and against each other, more than they do against the forestay.

~Rich

All I know is that I tightened up my side stays by 1/4" (2 increments at 1/8" each increment) and this made my forestay (with CDI furler) much tighter. Side stays are tighter and forestay is tighter...less movement/swinging etc... Which I hope is a good thing.

Used a Loos Gauge on the side stays but that was nearly 5 years ago and I have forgot the numbers...but others have posted them on the forum. Do a search on Loos Gauge prolly find the answer.

Cheers,
Jim

[Hamin' X]

Yes, some of the force is transfered to the forestay. All I am saying is, because of the angles, less strength is needed in the forestay, than the side stays. I'll bet that Steph could do an analysis of the differences. As has been shown before, the required tension on a shroud depends upon it's breaking strength. The heavier the stay, the more tension that is needed. Are your chainplates rated for this extra load?

~Rich

[Ixneigh]

The forstays is smaller. I got a replacement from bwy. They confirmed its oem.
Well its total bullcrap. Smaller why? To save wieght? The headstay keeps the mast out of the cockpit. It takes bending and sagging imposed by the jib. It takes wear from tbe jib hanks. It should be the strongest stay on the yacht. Period. Next time my mast goes up it will be replaced. That wire is cheap enough. Replace it every few years.
Forget the friggan chainplates. Larger wire does impose more load on them. It only gives more of a safety margine. Adding extra ballast will impose greater loads.
I may also switch to 7x7 wire. Its less likely to be injured while rigging the boat like 1x19. The latter will NOT tolerate being bent and unbent. Even once near a terminal will ruin 1x19.
Sorry to hear of your mast misadventure. Good luck getting back sailing.

Ixneigh