Would You Buy Old or Buy New?

[davidbourne]

@dlandersson,

I really like the idea of seeing a well-loved Mac in person! I'm in Western NC, but travel a lot to coastal SC, where I was born.

Do you know any Mac owners in the Low Country? Charleston, Georgetown, Myrtle Beach or Litchfield?

Thanks!

Well, I guess I can use search, too.

[davidbourne]

Thank you gentlemen! Wow. You have lived up to, and even surpassed my expectations with your generous thoughts.

@mastreb, Lots of great ideas. It's good news that the boats hold up well over time. I like the idea of a centerboard, especially since I tend to find all the shallows. I love to explore. I assume you look under the boat to see the condition a board is in. I'm wondering if it has to be in the water to tell, though.
I'm a Garmin fan, so a chart plotter is on the list. I'd like to think an iPad would work, but I won't rely on such a fragile piece of gear.

I had planned to get stern rail seats at some point, but if they really add to the enjoyment I will consider them sooner than later. I have a feeling my girls will freak out the first time a big heel comes on.

@Sea Striker, that blue hull is beautiful but the maintenance is a big factor. I hear it's a bit hotter, too. I hope to sail in FL, and in the summery south.

@dlandersson, I'd love to see some Macs! I bet you have several in your area. And you have a good dealer, nearby, too I hear. Your lakes are practically oceans compared to the ones we have near here. I'm in Asheville, NC and often go to coastal SC and central FL.

@ROAD Soldier, thanks for the BS warning. I've read a lot about props, angle mounts, weights, HP, torque and the bigger engine seems to make sense. I take it that you endorse the 140? If you were to re-outfit would you go with that? We are pretty tall and my girls tend to pack A LOT, but if you count up all my camera gear I'll out weigh them all. I don't need tons of speed, but I do want to get on a plane and go home quickly, if I need to.

This quote hit's home: "The more excuses you listen to not fulfill a dream, the more likely it will stay a dream."

Getting a used boat will get me in a Mac a lot faster. Screw the dreams, just get me on the water!

@Divecoz, 35K is what I figured for new, then I still need to add up from there, right? It's all about perception of value, and right now my wife is not seeing the value. That will change, but the wait time will be much less if I go for used.

Electric Tilt, very good point. Esp if it's a heavy engine. As for the mods and maintenance, I am willing, but a big negative is that I can't store the boat at my house. My driveway is too steep. That will limit the number of mods I can easily make. I'm handy and have a good friend who is very handy. I hope to turn him into my first mate.

Man, that Seaward is nice. But where the heck's the outboard!?

@nedmiller, excellent. I have not considered sleeping near an opening. That's a tough one, because I guess you don't know 'till you go. Isn't the rear birth bigger on an X? Is the "ceiling" lower than the M? All very good points. I really need to see both, now that I'm convinced the X is a serious option.

@Niceaft, is the cockpit bigger on the M? You and @nedMiller give the same criteria (you both say look at both interiors) but you have chosen different boats!

@traderdave, I like the shower idea, and I did not know the heads were that different. I'm 6'4 so it would mean lots of stooping for me to get to the M head, plus it's smaller.

@robbarnes1965, Yea, that $22,000 price tag seems so low, so I start to think "I really should just get a brand new one", but all the gear adds up to 35K fast. And so many mods seem important. Your choice of a 10hp or a 90 is very telling. Is it true that the 90hp will get decent mileage, too? Not as good as a 10, but then it's not working to it's max as a 10 would have to do.

@DaveB, Three years of free sailing sounds like living the dream to me! Maybe since I won't buy till the Spring or late Winter I can find s great deal like you did. This is a story my wife will hear, for sure.

It says a lot that you have a Mac after having all those other boats. I'm glad to hear you are getting a 90hp, too. I also love your "don't hold off buying" advice. It's probably what I came here looking for in this post.

@RussMT, I'm looking at the Mac as a sleeper/trailer/sailer-craft. No need for a speedboat. The stock trailers have the look of "it just barely does it". I'm ok with that for some things, but not the highway. It's the most dangerous thing we do, by far. I read about rust problems and assume the older models would be problematic. Dual axle; check that, and brakes, too.

I'm very glad to hear you have never heard of a hull failure. The fellow with the 140hp seems to be pretty happy, so I figure a 90 is good.

Many many thanks again to you all. It's been a pleasure hearing what you think. You have shaped my opinions. I'm now thinking of an X or a great deal on an M. This will help me get out there sooner than later.

Best,

DB

[opie]

DB,
Welcome to the Mac world. You're a member if you are reading and posting, even if Mac-less at the moment.

We are in Asheville, but only for the weekend tending the grandkids....

If you are in the LC for Labor Day, come on up the short drive to Wrightsville Beach for a visit. There is a strong rumor that Sea Striker may be there with a blue M and also a rumor that we will be there with a white X. So you can see both, if the creek don't rise...

[dlandersson]

A very good friend is in Mount Olive, NC.

Anyone near there?

Thank you gentlemen! Wow. You have lived up to, and even surpassed my expectations with your generous thoughts.

@mastreb, Lots of great ideas. It's good news that the boats hold up well over time. I like the idea of a centerboard, especially since I tend to find all the shallows. I love to explore. I assume you look under the boat to see the condition a board is in. I'm wondering if it has to be in the water to tell, though.
I'm a Garmin fan, so a chart plotter is on the list. I'd like to think an iPad would work, but I won't rely on such a fragile piece of gear.

I had planned to get stern rail seats at some point, but if they really add to the enjoyment I will consider them sooner than later. I have a feeling my girls will freak out the first time a big heel comes on.

@Sea Striker, that blue hull is beautiful but the maintenance is a big factor. I hear it's a bit hotter, too. I hope to sail in FL, and in the summery south.

@dlandersson, I'd love to see some Macs! I bet you have several in your area. And you have a good dealer, nearby, too I hear. Your lakes are practically oceans compared to the ones we have near here. I'm in Asheville, NC and often go to coastal SC and central FL.

@ROAD Soldier, thanks for the BS warning. I've read a lot about props, angle mounts, weights, HP, torque and the bigger engine seems to make sense. I take it that you endorse the 140? If you were to re-outfit would you go with that? We are pretty tall and my girls tend to pack A LOT, but if you count up all my camera gear I'll out weigh them all. I don't need tons of speed, but I do want to get on a plane and go home quickly, if I need to.

This quote hit's home: "The more excuses you listen to not fulfill a dream, the more likely it will stay a dream."

Getting a used boat will get me in a Mac a lot faster. Screw the dreams, just get me on the water!

@Divecoz, 35K is what I figured for new, then I still need to add up from there, right? It's all about perception of value, and right now my wife is not seeing the value. That will change, but the wait time will be much less if I go for used.

Electric Tilt, very good point. Esp if it's a heavy engine. As for the mods and maintenance, I am willing, but a big negative is that I can't store the boat at my house. My driveway is too steep. That will limit the number of mods I can easily make. I'm handy and have a good friend who is very handy. I hope to turn him into my first mate.

Man, that Seaward is nice. But where the heck's the outboard!?

@nedmiller, excellent. I have not considered sleeping near an opening. That's a tough one, because I guess you don't know 'till you go. Isn't the rear birth bigger on an X? Is the "ceiling" lower than the M? All very good points. I really need to see both, now that I'm convinced the X is a serious option.

@Niceaft, is the cockpit bigger on the M? You and @nedMiller give the same criteria (you both say look at both interiors) but you have chosen different boats!

@traderdave, I like the shower idea, and I did not know the heads were that different. I'm 6'4 so it would mean lots of stooping for me to get to the M head, plus it's smaller.

@robbarnes1965, Yea, that $22,000 price tag seems so low, so I start to think "I really should just get a brand new one", but all the gear adds up to 35K fast. And so many mods seem important. Your choice of a 10hp or a 90 is very telling. Is it true that the 90hp will get decent mileage, too? Not as good as a 10, but then it's not working to it's max as a 10 would have to do.

@DaveB, Three years of free sailing sounds like living the dream to me! Maybe since I won't buy till the Spring or late Winter I can find s great deal like you did. This is a story my wife will hear, for sure.

It says a lot that you have a Mac after having all those other boats. I'm glad to hear you are getting a 90hp, too. I also love your "don't hold off buying" advice. It's probably what I came here looking for in this post.

@RussMT, I'm looking at the Mac as a sleeper/trailer/sailer-craft. No need for a speedboat. The stock trailers have the look of "it just barely does it". I'm ok with that for some things, but not the highway. It's the most dangerous thing we do, by far. I read about rust problems and assume the older models would be problematic. Dual axle; check that, and brakes, too.

I'm very glad to hear you have never heard of a hull failure. The fellow with the 140hp seems to be pretty happy, so I figure a 90 is good.

Many many thanks again to you all. It's been a pleasure hearing what you think. You have shaped my opinions. I'm now thinking of an X or a great deal on an M. This will help me get out there sooner than later.

Best,

DB

[dlandersson]

FYI, in the bylaws, newest member has to buy the pizza.

Hi there,

1st off, this forum is fantastic. Many thanks for all of the Mac information. I've never even *seen* a Mac, but thanks to your pics, mods, stories and ideas, I'm completely sold on getting one!

But what do I get? Should I wait until I can afford the "MacDaddy Mac" or get a used X to learn on sooner? Maybe I could sell it in a few years to a friend, upgrade to a new M and we could do Mac Family Adventures together.

I know I want a 90HP for skiing with kids and heavy loads. I want the safest trailer I can get, and I want to keep the skeptical Mrs. Admiral happy. It seems that an older model might already be fitted out; will I have problems putting a 90hp on a new Mac? I think I would lose the hull warranty. Will dealers or new outboard shops even install this "overpowered" 90hp engine?

What would you do if you had to do it again?

All the best,

David

PS, I searched but could not find a similar thread from months ago.

[davidbourne]

Thanks for the NC lead on seeing a Mac.

He's about 5 1/2 hrs from me, but I won't rule it out.

And yes, pizza and drinks are only fair.

Best,

DB

[C Striker]

Don't listen to the so called self proclaimed engineer type individuals that think they know what particular mod will do to the Mac that they haven't done. Also be very careful about what people express by what they read in a book about sailing, particularly when they try to apply it to what a Mac cant do. .

.....Agree

....Ditto Use common sense, don't follow advice blindly...

My M sits in Leland NC, across the river from Wilmington. Maybe 75 minutes from N. Myrtle. Feel free to stop if you are in the neighborhood. Be warned, I'm not on the computer much. PM me for my cell # if you have any upcoming trips this way.

Yes maybe you can see an beside an on labor day. Thay will be my first day on the water.

Yes, I envy the X's slightly bigger cockpit, ease of transom ladder use, and mainsheet location.

I can safely assume Opie envies my rotating mast, and his wife loves the M interior. She stands about 5 ft tall so why wouldn't she?
The M interior was a big selling point for my wife. She wasn't at all taken with the wide open X interior. I would have been happy with the X.
Both will get you out there....

[davidbourne]

Sea Striker,

Enough of you have commented that advice must be taken with caution. It's duly noted.

Thanks you very much for the invite to see you boat! I will look you up when I get to Wilmington. I have a cousin in Wrightsville Beach that I have been wanting to come see. I might make a trip this Fall.

Your comments about the interiors are making me realize that I really have NO IDEA what I would like or won't like about an X or M. I have got to see both of them.

Before starting this thread, I really thought I wanted a new M. A new M would be fantastic of course, but I'm completely open to either boat at this point, and I'll probably buy a used boat.

So once again, thanks to the forum. The Internet is an amazing thing.

Best,

DB

[u12fly]

The M interior was a big selling point for my wife. She wasn't at all taken with the wide open X interior. I would have been happy with the X. Both will get you out there....

Initially, we only saw the X & M in pictues... When the Admiral stepped on baord the X she quickly stepped off and said this won't do. Later at a boat show she saw an M and blessed it as a worthy craft. So began our adventure searching for a "good deal" on an M. I'm very pleased with the boat, I could have lived with the X but I have to admit, when you stack it all up - I prefer the M and am clad we went that route. The Admiral really knows her stuff.

[mastreb]

I just went aboard an for the first time yesterday... Buena Suerta was docked across from us at the Public Docks in San Deigo. Met Rick--Great guy. He had an awesome 12/120v chest refrigerator I need to find somewhere, and a NorthStar chartplotter and radar which I've never seen on a small boat before. He'd built an aft antenna mast by adding extra glassing to the starboard side transom and bolting an 1.5"x 15' aluminum pipe using handrail couplers. Very solid. Setup with inverters, chargers, and a stowed away Honda generator. He's got it outfitted for long-term coastal cruising.

I have to say I really liked the X interior. It seemed a little lower in the cabin, which is important for me, since I'm six foot five and wear the world like it's a sportcoat I've grown out of, but I really liked the aft head placement, the larger dinette, the open v-berth, and the deeper storage compartments. The centerboard trunk was not the space killing necessity that I've heard it portreyed as, certainly no worse than the dagger-board trunk on the M in terms of design concessions. Didn't have a chance to lay in the aft berth but it looked quite a bit more restricted.

Interestingly, it was not for my wife. Not sure why, but the admiralty do seem to prefer the .

Overall I'm very happy with the interior on these later boats with the sliding galley, although I've numerous times threatened to pull the galley out completely and leave it in the garage. We've only cooked on the boat once, and have never used the fresh water system we had put in by the dealership even when staying aboard a week. The water tastes "plastickey" from the installation.

[Catigale]

The is a better sailing boat, especially the transom release. The cockpit of the lends it self better for expansion...I've done 7 up for a week on Cape Cod using the cockpit as berths. Sums website has inspired me to make up the cockpit cushions better for this. I cant imagine this many on the

If you are under crew of four cruising, I would go I think.

[dlandersson]

I dunno - there's an M a few slips down from my X and if you are at or above the average height, the M cockpit is really cramped to move around in - unless you are simply using the seating as your floor.

The is a better sailing boat, especially the transom release. The cockpit of the lends it self better for expansion...I've done 7 up for a week on Cape Cod using the cockpit as berths. Sums website has inspired me to make up the cockpit cushions better for this. I cant imagine this many on the

If you are under crew of four cruising, I would go I think.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

For the Mac.X I was looking for a boat that had no trailer as I didn't like the Mac. single axel steel trailer and found a used 1997 Mac.X with a 50 hp Honda and paid $7800 3 years ago.
Today I have spent a total of $13,200 on the boat that includes original cost plus a tandem aluminum new trailer,sterio,refig,C2000 jib,standing rigging replacement,3 new batteries,elect. panels and fans,all new foam chusions replacement and a bunch of other items.(new windows, rubrail,large anchor roller all not installed yet).
I figuare I can get what I put into it and still have 3 years free sailing.

Wow Dave, you really got a good deal on that X..although I'll bet you have invested some elbow grease too in the fact that it is so shiny. My opinion is that if you can get a 26X that cheaply, it is kind of a no brainer (of course, I'm biased towards the X boat anyways).

I gave up buying stuff which I didn't yet have time to install. I would buy something and it would get lost in my workshop after a couple years so I'm now of the mind that I will only buy stuff which I'll install right away.

I've also been thinking about a bigger motor for years, but my 50HP Mercury bigfoot just keeps running so well (albeit a couple of carb cleanouts over the years and a cooling problem - all fixed) that I just can't seem to part with it until it shows some signs of serious demise. But one day in the future, I'll replace it..most likely with a 90.

Dimitri

[Catigale]

I gave up buying stuff which I didn't yet have time to install. I would buy something and it would get lost in my workshop after a couple years so I'm now of the mind that I will only buy stuff which I'll install right away.

My version of this same disease is to buy the thing 2-3 times, then wonder why I have all this stuff.....

[Ixneigh]

I bought new since I had a boat loan and the difference in intrest between new and used balanced out any savings.
Im not a mod happy person although i am quite happy to do minor things. All the boat needed was a few additional storage solutions. Plus maybe some extra lead and a couple of sail tweaks.