M25 Rudder Issues

[PASailor]

We have been experiencing some difficulties with tacking our Mac 25 in all sorts of winds. We have had this boat for four years and the issue has only become really noticeable this season. Sailing in winds of 10-15 knots we have noticed that we cannot turn the vessel into the wind enough to make effective tacks. The result is that we are pushed farther and farther down our lake (with winds from the N-NW direction. We have been wondering if perhaps an excess of sea-weed has built up along the swing keel however, there must be a reasonable solution to this problem. I have a hard time believing that a hall of fame sailboat design is flawed enough to require rudder modifications to facilitate proper function. If any one has any ideas or experience your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[mastreb]

In general, Macs are harder to tack than full keel sailboats because they lack the intertia to pull the boat all the way through the tack without power from the sails.

Technique #1:

1) Turn through the wind.
2) Manage the mainsail, mainsheet, and vang first, allowing the jib to stay backwinded through the duration of the tack.
3) Once the mainsail is powered up on the opposite tack, then pull the jib around.

Pulling the jib around while the main is in irons (or before) is a recipe for incomplete tacks on these boats. The backwinded jib helps to push the helm all the way through the tack guaranteeing that you won't get stuck in irons. The longer you stay backwinded, the more you'll "stop" during the tack, so pull it around as soon as the main fills--but not before.

Technique #2:

When that doesn't work and you get stuck anyway, hard over the rudder to the opposite direction and to a 270 to gybe around instead of tacking.

Matt

[tomchitecture]

I experience this under main only.

More often in light air. Even more often with a lot of passengers.

I really need the jib to point in all conditions. I also need to make sure I, what I call "sail through my tacks." By this, I mean to not just kick the rudder, let everything go neutral and catch it on the other side, but to keep pressure on the jib as much as possible and don't just stall the rudder.

Ex-dinghy sailors forget their big boats take 25-45 seconds to tack if they want any lift through the maneuver. (Me)

If you're doing all that right, you might have something going on. When we race, we have been known to do silly things like tie trash bags around rudders. You don't need much interference to change the physics.

[snotnosetommy]

I once blocked the rudder back a few degrees on my M25 to the point of being just vertical. I think that was a bad idea. It needs to be all the way down, slightly forward of vertical. Has your hold-down line stretched? Maybe hit something?
Also, as you probably know, the keel should be down all the way to the lock bolt. Doesn't have to be locked, but down. Puts the center of resistance forward.
Good luck.
BTW, welcome to the board.

[Freedom77]

INteresting dillema. I can turn our V-25 on a dime. Mac-25 and V-25 are almost the same hull. Is your keel all the way down and locked? Is it jamming in the keel trunk? If you have a two piece rudder, is it locked and vertical. Perhaps you need to adjust the slot in your jib or genoa. Next time try falling off slightly and pushing rudderto leeward about 45 degress. Any more that this and the rudder acts a brake. Try to get a copy of Sail Power by Wallace Ross. Hope this helps. Fair Winds and Full Sails...Old Salt.

[Catigale]

If you havent pulled e boat and cleaned recently, a build up of hull critters could be your problem.
Obviously since the boat has worked well, the design is sound and something has changed ..other than global warming.

[Puck]

Had the same problem on my 26S one time at the end last years season. Couldn't turn into the wind enough to tack. Turns out my rigging was loose, not by much. Since I am in mast up storage, I didn't always check my rigging tension prior to going out. Now it is on my pre-sail checklist along with making sure the CB is down, ballast tank is full, etc. Haven't had the problem since then.

[moserwe]

I know this is an old post, but I had the same thing happen to me several times last summer, getting stuck in irons while trying to tack. The problem was the overzealous, and very strong, crew member on the jib, would try to pull the jib across the foredeck before the boat made it's turn thru the wind, like you would have when you heave-to. At least wait till the jib luffs before you pull the jib across the foredeck, better yet let it backfill before pulling it across the deck.