Towing: Mazda CX-9 vs Nissan Pathfinder

[seahouse]

Hi Romandesign!

I would echo Mastreb’s sentiments on the Ford Flex (/ Lincoln MKT). You need look no closer than your back yard; both are manufactured at the Oakville plant.

Test drive the Ecoboost models. I’ve been patiently awaiting a styling change on the MKT, though. Haven’t really bought cars on the basis of styling in the past, (other performance characteristics take precedence), but the performance of the twin-turbo Ecoboost MKT very much lives up to the V6-that-feels-like-a-V8 hype (and I should add that, other than motorcycles, I have never in my life (yet) owned anything but V8’s). I would have one in my garage now if it weren’t for the outlandishly pretentious styling. I test drove several times, but never ordered one, yet. Hence the consideration of the Flex, because I can only put it off so long…

Both are recommended by Consumer Reports, the MKT with better-than-average predicted reliability.

I suggest the Ecoboost because of the torque (355lb-ft, IIRC) and turbo-generated hp is more real-world power than normally aspirated hp (which diminishes with altitude ASL, right when you need it – to climb hills and mountains with the Mac behind). And how many people drive at sea level (where the hp numbers are calculated) – after all- that’s what the Mac is for!

The Ecoboost engine option is $1000’s less this year than previous years (I believe). Gives good fuel mileage when you don’t need the power, and good power when you need it.

It’s direct injected (yes, like the E-tec technology), so no turbo lag. I think it will be the near future of internal combustion engines – (DI combined with turbo boost) just this week I saw the first TV advertisement specifically for it – and it’s been available for several years. With all wheel drive for the slimy ramp.

The trailer towing inertial anti-sway program will also bring sway into check by automatically applying the brakes to individual wheels. It’s another layer of safety – they’ll all have to have this eventually, mandated or simply to be competitive (just like seat belts, airbags, ALB, stability programs etc. etc. etc.), as I look at such things, it could save your life, so why not have it now?

Some of these features simply aren’t available on other comparable vehicles.
I’m not trying to sell you, everyone has their own individual priorities, but you might want to check them out.

- Brian.

Edit : Ok, just read your post above, ahead of me (got sidetracked), I would guess if you don’t like the look of the Flex, then the MKT is NEVER gonna fly!!!!

[romandesign]

If you are only towing a couple of miles, then pushing the limit may not be a big deal. If you are planning on towing 100's of miles at a time, then you might want to really think about what (or who) you are risking to save a couple bucks.

You're correct, I don't have a Mac yet. Hopefully coming or next season. As far as I could research the australian version is identical. Same goes for many makes and models: european and australian versions sometimes have almost twice the towing rating as in north america, with no difference in drivetrain, breaks or cooling. The consensus is that it's due to litigious environment here - companies want to limit their responsibility and naturally heavier loads would potentially create more accidents on any car, or possibly also due to different trailer requiremens in europe (haven't figured out what is the difference there).

And it's not a question of "couple of bucks" - if buying Macgregor means that we have to spend 30K on a car instead of 22K, and also have a worse car for everyday use, it almost certainly means that I won't be getting my Mac at all My wife is sceptical of the idea and if it would take so much from family budget - the case is lost

[romandesign]

Edit : Ok, just read your post above, ahead of me (got sidetracked), I would guess if you don’t like the look of the Flex, then the MKT is NEVER gonna fly!!!!

Well, it's actually looks much better than super-boxy coffin-like Flex. A bit pretentious, but I could live with it. Unfortunately it's only available from 2010 and up, so 42K+ is too expensive for us. It's almost twice as much as Mazda CX9, for a vehicle that will be mostly used on weekends (and sometimes with a Mac hopefully).

[yukonbob]

If just being used for the weekends why not pick up an older 3/4 ton diesel or gas pick up? Or is new a requirement? An extended cab with a canopy you could easily get a family of four plus gear in the box and tow twice weight you need for under 10k. I bought a 98 F250 three years ago for 3k as a hunting/bush truck and have had no problems other than replacing both U joints ($150 with shop time).

[romandesign]

If just being used for the weekends why not pick up an older 3/4 ton diesel or gas pick up? Or is new a requirement? An extended cab with a canopy you could easily get a family of four plus gear in the box and tow twice weight you need for under 10k. I bought a 98 F250 three years ago for 3k as a hunting/bush truck and have had no problems other than replacing both U joints ($150 with shop time).

Unfortunately insurance here in Toronto area is excruciating and kills this idea. I'd probably have to pay at least $1.5K per year for additional vehicle (I pay around $3,5K/year for two sedans: '08 Mazda6 and '00 Chrysler Intrepid which we are replacing), so it has to be one that can do everything, in addition to Mazda6 which drives my wife to work etc. Third car would be too expensive to insure. New is not a requirement, we're looking for 2-3 old 7-seat SUV that runs on regular gas, has decent fuel economy for its size and can still pull a Mac when I finally can get it. Pathfinder came pretty close, but useless 3rd row and very heavy truck driving feel make it unattractive option. Mazda CX9 is not perfect either, with its barely-if-at-all-adequate towing rating. I might even settle for a good minivan if it could pull better and had AWD. And all within $22K area.

[robbarnes1965]

If just being used for the weekends why not pick up an older 3/4 ton diesel or gas pick up? Or is new a requirement? An extended cab with a canopy you could easily get a family of four plus gear in the box and tow twice weight you need for under 10k. I bought a 98 F250 three years ago for 3k as a hunting/bush truck and have had no problems other than replacing both U joints ($150 with shop time).

Unfortunately insurance here in Toronto area is excruciating and kills this idea. I'd probably have to pay at least $1.5K per year for additional vehicle (I pay around $3,5K/year for two sedans: '08 Mazda6 and '00 Chrysler Intrepid which we are replacing), so it has to be one that can do everything, in addition to Mazda6 which drives my wife to work etc. Third car would be too expensive to insure. New is not a requirement, we're looking for 2-3 old 7-seat SUV that runs on regular gas, has decent fuel economy for its size and can still pull a Mac when I finally can get it. Pathfinder came pretty close, but useless 3rd row and very heavy truck driving feel make it unattractive option. Mazda CX9 is not perfect either, with its barely-if-at-all-adequate towing rating. I might even settle for a good minivan if it could pull better and had AWD. And all within $22K area.

You might want to consider just keeping the boat on the water near you. You live in a fantastic sailing area and you can just cast off and go, saving time and gas money. For a "away" trip. Just rent a U-Haul truck. I know it kind of defeats the purpose of a trailer sailor but you will still have the option. I know I use mine a lot more not having to set it up each time. I often just ride my bike over and shove off. Even going over to have a beer at the dock is fun. Like a lakefront cottage without the huge expense.

I did have a Toyota Highlander Hybrid that towed it just fine. I found it a little light but then again I had no experience towing with anything else. I bought the highlander specifically to tow the boat but the ex got it

[romandesign]

You might want to consider just keeping the boat on the water near you. You live in a fantastic sailing area and you can just cast off and go, saving time and gas money. For a "away" trip. Just rent a U-Haul truck. I know it kind of defeats the purpose of a trailer sailor but you will still have the option. I know I use mine a lot more not having to set it up each time. I often just ride my bike over and shove off. Even going over to have a beer at the dock is fun. Like a lakefront cottage without the huge expense.

I did have a Toyota Highlander Hybrid that towed it just fine. I found it a little light but then again I had no experience towing with anything else. I bought the highlander specifically to tow the boat but the ex got it

I heard marinas around here are about $3500/year - IF you are lucky to get a space from a long waiting list. That's too expensive. Also, after I initially get some experience, the goal is explore Ontario and the beautiful nature here at different lakes - not just sail around the same spot all the time. If I wanted that - I'd buy a cheaper and larger keel sailboat (some people are desperate to sell towards the end of season facing new marina costs).

I like Highlander - that's the only one we liked besides Mazda. 3rd row up doesn't leave any cargo space though, even for our stroller... And finding used one that has a towing package would be difficult.

[mastreb]

You should look at real-world MPG ratings for the CX9 vs. the Volvo XC90 (google cx9 real world mpg and click the edmunds link). These are owners reporting their actual results over the long term. Bottom line is that people are surprised by the average 20 mpg they're getting out of the XC-90 and expressing bitter disappointment out of the average 21mpg they're getting out of the CX9. The CX-9 is way more variable and apparently tuned to hit the numbers in testing.

The difference in gas prices between regular and premium where I live is about .30 cents per tank. Presuming you drive a high 20,000 mi/annum, you're using 1000 gallons a year in both these cars. Thats a difference of $300 per year or $30 a month in gas price difference, and that's presuming you can't just use mid-grade or regular anyway. I wouldn't let that be a deal breaker.

[Crikey]

The difference in gas prices between regular and premium where I live is about .30 cents per tank.

Whoa Matt! Having some serious trouble with that..... Oh wait, you don't live in Canada - and have a 10 litre fuel tank in the vehicle!

[mastreb]

The difference in gas prices between regular and premium where I live is about .30 cents per tank.

Whoa Matt! Having some serious trouble with that..... Oh wait, you don't live in Canada - and have a 10 litre fuel tank in the vehicle!

Let's see: Gas in Oakville Ontario at the 7-eleven is 120/l for regular vs. 133/l for premium or .13 cents/l, times 3.78 is .49 cents per gallon. Time was being in Canadian dollars would have gotten that closer, but yeah, you guys are being screwed. It would be $50/mo. Different presuming 20K miles (32Km) per year.

My tank hold 98.5 liters.

Matt

[Crikey]

Yes screwed!
But personally, this is a moot point - and I'm not driving a Hummer in front of my MacGregor.
I'm also going to be looking for a replacement vehicle, sometime this year and splitting hairs over a few miles per gallon will have less impact than the other attributes of the tow package that I'll be living with for the rest of the time.
Can a Nissan Murano cut it with the CVT (transmission) for a tow package? I like those.

I've never figured out how we can be your biggest petroleum providers (still growing), and continue to get the shaft at our own pumps.

[romandesign]

You should look at real-world MPG ratings for the CX9 vs. the Volvo XC90 (google cx9 real world mpg and click the edmunds link). These are owners reporting their actual results over the long term. Bottom line is that people are surprised by the average 20 mpg they're getting out of the XC-90 and expressing bitter disappointment out of the average 21mpg they're getting out of the CX9. The CX-9 is way more variable and apparently tuned to hit the numbers in testing.

The difference in gas prices between regular and premium where I live is about .30 cents per tank. Presuming you drive a high 20,000 mi/annum, you're using 1000 gallons a year in both these cars. Thats a difference of $300 per year or $30 a month in gas price difference, and that's presuming you can't just use mid-grade or regular anyway. I wouldn't let that be a deal breaker.

Thanks, you got me thinking. Looks like a very good car, surprisingly inexpensive for used '08, about 3K more than Mazda. Gas is more expensive in Ontario. but with our moderate usage as a second/weekend car would probably be 15000 km/year, so it's going to be $300-$400 / year difference. Not a deal breaker for sure. We'll consider it and do a test drive...

[Phantom]

I don't know much about the XC-90 but we had a Volvo V70 XC Station wagon for a couple years and it was a great car. Very solid and by far the most comfortable car I have ever owned. My wife totalled it this past August. It did its job in the accident and my wife and daughter walked away without a scratch on them. FYI it called for Premium Gas but you can get away with putting regular in it. It will run. Our regular here is 87 octane and in the manual that was the minimum octane rating. We usually put premium in it though. My wife now drives a Volkswagon Beetle convertible. I hope she doesn't get in another accident anytime soon. I have a 2004 Ford Explorer and I tow my with it. I just put a class 3 hitch on it and that costed about $200.00 to upgrade.
My Explorer has 7 passenger seating. It is 4 wheel drive. It has been a great car in the past 5 years that I have owned it. I have the Eddie Bauer version with the 4.0 V6. I have gotten up to 24 MPG on the highway with it. Usually driving around town I get about 18 MPG. I haven't towed the boat much with it as we keep our boat in a Marina from April to October of every year but towing the boat I have probably averaged about 15 MPG. I towed the boat from Seattle, WA to Spokane, WA when I purchased it. That was about a 300 mile drive over a mountain pass and also a few other steep grades.
Good luck shopping for your vehicle and your boat. Check consumer reports while you are shopping. Some vehicles look great when they are new or a few years old but they don't continue to look great or run great once they get some miles on them. Keep in mind all of the gear, fuel, luggage, and people you will be hauling around when looking for towing capacity. I sometimes feel like my Explorer is barely adequate.

[trdprotruck]

Since your profile says "Still Shopping", so I'm not sure if you purchased a Mac yet. If you own one already, I would advise you put it on a scale loaded the way you would normally want to tow. If you have a 50hp or larger motor, I think you will be in for a surprise. With fluid, fuel, battery, sails, normal electronics, tools, and required boating safety gear I think you will find that you will easily be over 3,500 pounds. The brakes and suspension will be the biggest problem you will have at that point. The Aussy version most likely has a lower gear set, tighter suspension, and larger brakes that give it the higher tow rating.

If you are only towing a couple of miles, then pushing the limit may not be a big deal. If you are planning on towing 100's of miles at a time, then you might want to really think about what (or who) you are risking to save a couple bucks.

X2

In all honesty I think the factory misleads people regarding the type of vehicle needed to tow a Mac. Yes a light duty vehicle can pull a stripped down Mac, but you will definitely not be towing in this configuration in reality. Once you have a MAC with a big motor, fuel, water and all your other supplies loaded not to mention all the stuff loaded in the tow vehicle with your family of four you will be exceeding the capacity of the Mazda (even the Aussie version) and possibly even the Nissan Pathfinder. To be safe, I would recommend a full sized SUV or 1/2-3/4 ton truck for a family of 4. You always want to calculate the weight of the trailer, boat and even all the people/ stuff in your tow vehicle when determining if you're safe to tow. Make sure your tow vehicle has extra capacity and you won't have to drive white knuckled down the highway. The advantages are longer wheel base, more power, more capacity and a heavier tow vehicle. Could you imagine what kind of trouble you could get into if you were in a light vehicle with an overloaded trailer that is heavier than you are? Just imagine trying to stop in an emergency when a car decides to cut you off at the stop light.

I am towing with a Toyota Tundra and while it has the wheel base and power, I am still going to be upgrading the rear suspension with air bags.

I know it's tough economically and you want to buy a car that has the best of all worlds, but owning a boat is expensive and it's even more expensive when you don't prepare for the worst.

Just my two cents.

-Randy

[romandesign]

Unfortunately truck is not an option... If I have to buy a truck to tow a Mac - I won't see my Mac in foreseeable future...

Based on feedback from here and my blog I have two more candidates: Volvo XC90 (rated 5000lb) and Chevrolet Traverse (rated 5200lb). I haven't driven either yet, but potentially Volvo has a problem with reliability, mostly transmission which is stressed the most when towing, so I'm a bit skeptical. Maybe with extended warranty (considering new trans for Volvo costs 6K) it might work.

Chevrolet Traverse is good on paper, has very long wheel base, almost as much room as a minivan, seating for 8 and towing rating that should be enough (?). I have to try it - it might not be enjoyable to drive though, and that's important. It's quite economical for its size, uses regular gas, design is not too bad. I still like Mazda best and it's more reliable, bot Chevy is not bad in terms of reliability, and has a much higher towing capacity and cargo room than Mazda. I need to check it out.

From this forum I assume that loaded Mac with trailer would be 3700 to 4000 lbs, me, my wife and two kids should be a maximum of 400 lbs for the next few years, plus maybe 200 lbs of cargo (food and light gear for few days). Total is about 4600 lbs, which puts us at 88% of towing capacity for the Chevy for example, which is much more reasonable than a tiny bit over australian rated capacity for Mazda. If I need to put additional trans cooler or beefier rear suspension - it's doable.