help choosing on board power setup

[Knot Tied Down]

Hey guys I've been mulling it over and over in my head about which way to go and what to buy...and could use some help. I want to get power on board the boat with a small 1000 or 2000 watt Honda generator hooked to an on board smart battery charger that is for the small battery for the 50hp outboard and for a deep cycle house battery that I still need to buy. I would then get a power inverter and run everything from that.
The only thing I have at this time is a small battery for starting the outboard engine, and don't plan on using too heavy of electronics... but I do want to be able to charge the batteries while I'm out so I will never have to worry about that and will have the comfort of electricity as well.
does anyone have a similar set up or a better idea? I do want to keep it cheap as I can and be able to monitor the battery level some how, so I know when to charge.

Thanks!

[Kittiwake]

For modest amounts of electrical power I am happy with an Eliminator 700 watt Mobile Battery Pack ($70 on sale).
It is more easily portable than a second house battery, has built-in jumper cables & USB port & cigarette-lighter ports. It can be charged by A/C 120 volts or directly off the house battery.
There's not a lot of room for a generator on a Mac.
Kittiwake

[Divecoz]

Hi ......Knot Tied Down
I tried a gen set..mine didn't work for me .. mine was cheap and very noisy.. as said really not much room on a Mac for storage , unless you want your boat looking like Fred Sanford's front yard
I now have 3 batteries.. a combiner and appropriate perko style switches.. my 50 HP Merc charges everything just fine..
I have a Cheap Volt meter wired up to the batteries.. and Momentary switches so I can, at a flip of a switch see how much juice I have available..
I spent a TOTAL of 6 and 1/2 weeks living , on the hook in SW Florida.. I never had a power issue.. That said .. as as much as I thought I wouldn't be using my Merc all that much.. I did use it almost everyday..At Night I ran lights and CD player and Anchor Alarm GPS..2 self check Bilge Pumps..
During the day ran my GPS CHart-Plotter and my VHF ( not always the VHF ...but every so often for weather reports ) and the CD player..
The Combiner takes care of my Starting Battery first and foremost.. and its ( starting battery)not available for House Use unless I rotate the switch..
In a Nut shell.......Everyday for 45 days I ........
Used the boat as I desired ... sailing motoring , whatever my need or desire was.. an hour or two before anchoring ? I'd check my house batteries for voltage.. ( Remember my starting battery is self contained so to speak) IF.. I had any concerns about house battery voltages ? I used my motor to get to my anchoring location.. ( my Merc charges VERY LITTLE at idle) if I felt I needed to charge my batteries? I ran the motor for an hour or so, to get to anchorage .. about 2500 RPM's I never had an issue.. BUT.. My lights are all LED's.. My Biggest Power Hog ? The CD Player ! The louder I played it the more power it consumes.. on the other-hand when NOT transmitting? The VHF is almost free.. as is the GPS..... with the depth sounder turned off.. That said... I was new to SW Florida and Ran my depth sounder a lot.. I have a 5 gallon porta potty and every few days I would run out into the Gulf a few miles and grind and pump it all overboard.. That run was done , under power and there by , charging my batteries..

[mastreb]

Don't do anything.

You don't need a generator. You have a generator. My outboard under light use (just motoring in and out of the boat ramps and slips) has kept my single battery charged just fine for a year. This is with camping aboard for (thus far) about 60 days.

My E-TEC 60 has a 28 amp charger. That's quite a bit of recharging power--two hours of run-time tops the 50-amp/hour battery off completely from dead. It's equal to a 330w generator, and while it is less efficient when running at idle it's quieter than most generators and has the advantage of already being hooked up and paid for. I run a chart-plotter, anemometer, VHF, and recharger for various phones, ipads, video games, etc. the entire time we're at sea, and we run LED cabin lights much of the evening when we're in port.

In port we run an extension cord to shore power and drive a power strip with that, so all the chargers go over to shore power. I've just bought a battery charger we can use while on shore power to charge the battery, but we've not had that the past year.

Reduce your constant consumption by replacing your navigation lights and cabin lights with LEDs (numerous other posts on that topic) and just avoid parasitic loads. Judicious use of circuit switches and master switches will prevent parasitic loads such as your chart-plotter and NMEA electronics from draining down your battery in port--put all that stuff on a single switch so you can turn off all the marine electronics at once.

You don't need anything 110v on a boat. Avoid it and you will make your life a lot simpler and cheaper. Sounds like you haven't bought any of this stuff yet, so just don't buy any. If you want a refrigerator, get a 12v dometic or a dual-power. For AC, just run a cable to shore power or get a propane RV unit.

People get really sophisticated with the on-board electronics wiring. I'm not sure why.

[Divecoz]

"" People get really sophisticated with the on-board electronics wiring. I'm not sure why.""
Ahhhh sometimes ( if its not too costly) its just plain fun.. I have a Pro Sport 20 + Built in charger on my boat..for when 120V. is available...
LOOKS LIKE!! My House here maybe selling!! Hip Hip Hurray!! Then Next winter I will be in Florida living very close to my brother.. My Boat gets ...Completely GUTTED and a Complete Makeover... All New Electrics..AND.. Radar .. Auto Pilot .. Better Bigger GPS.. Solar System .. Fridge .. A/C .. Aft wooden Bulk head.. Sail Pack ..Lazy Jacks .. Full Enclosure.. Swing away entrance ladder.. New Galley.. Cabin Table.. Cockpit table.. SS Dive ladder / platform.. New sails .. I have been waiting to do all this with his help for 3 years!!!
Toss out all my present canvas and coordinate it for the New Fighting Lady Yellow Hull.. We are discussing adding Rhino Skin 4' wide down the center of the hull bottom for beach landings .. ( if you've ever had a pickup with that in the bed you know its indestructible..

[Ixneigh]

I spend a lot of time on my boat on anchor or at her moorings. I don't find running the engine for battery charging suitable in terms of fuel use or engine hours. I have a few smallish solar panels and a 1000 watt Honda for those dreary rainy days where I want to be on the laptop all day with all the lights running.
It also runs a small marine battery charger.
Avoid the 2000 watt. I feel It's too heavy to move around the boat I store the generator forward against the vee berth. If you are concerned with fuel vapors run it out of gas. Mine has a very vapor tight fuel system and I have no odor from it at all.
This has saved me from having to try to hand crank the engine. It will also run small power tools. I bought a cover for it and it pretty much becomes invisible.
At one point I had located a generator from a discount import company that fit nicely under the cockpit seat but it was so poorly made I essentially gave it away and replaced it with the Honda. (read the dang thing just wouldn't start reliably)
I do use a small inverter for charging all manner of junk. They are cheap portable and plug into a cigarette lighter of which I have installed one on the helm for my portable gps and one under the cabin ladder for general purpose uses.
The solar panels keep up with modest use. I do not yet have a stereo but even that would not be a problem. It's the laptop that is an issue.
I would concur with keeping things simple. Try a temporary or portable solution first before doing permanent changes to the power system. If you find yourself using the item a lot, then you can redo it with the assurance that the item is really actually needed.

Ixneigh

[raycarlson]

here in the swest and mex in jul- sept a/c is a nessecity not an option.I went with one of those chinese knock-offs at 1200w it easily powers a 5k btu room a/c unit that i just set in the companionway hatch area and stow it down below when not in use, the little gen just stays lashed down near the mast.it has run flawlessly for going on three years now, it is not quiet like a honda though, but not unbearable after a half dozen coronas.

[Knot Tied Down]

Wow thank you for all the replies! Ok so I was told by the place where I store my boat that the outboards generator is not big enough to charge the battery reliably... and since I had no way of monitoring it (besides a multi meter) it made me paranoid that I woul id run the battery down and be stuck... that is when I only had the small battery on board though. The motor is a 2000 yamaha 50 horsepower. The boat is bare bones without a stereo only a marine vhs. I have a handheld gps that I will power with a power plug at the helm.
I do need to upgrade to the led lights, and will only need to power my laptop and phone otherwise. I thought a small 1000 watt honda generator would fit ok outside the cabin with a marine cover and a strap to hold it down. I thought I wanted to run an electric heater, but they draw so much power that I will stick with propane, with a carbon monoxide detector installed. I'm not concerned about a refrigerator on board at this point.
I was considering going with the pro sport on board battery charger. With maybe a 1000 watt power inverter? It's just so overwhelming because of the cost and how many ways you could get power on board. Thanks again for all the help!

Dustin

[kurz]

I put 2 solar panels / 50W on the Mastholder. Buyed a good electronic regulator an just one batterie.
It is since now really perfect. The solar panels gets power also when clouded, bcouse the regulator puts the 5v to 14V up, then just 1ampere.

the cooler hast a switch that powers off under 12.8V. Daytime I have plenty too much power, in the night the cooler stops, but was never warmer than 8degree.
All the ligths I changed to LED. What just is not installed yet a power switch, that turns all electricity off under 11.4V, to prevent starting problems.

But I will try to start the mercury 60HP by hand soon...

By this way I tray not to install a second batterie becouse of to much load...

[Crikey]

I put 2 solar panels / 50W on the Mastholder. Buyed a good electronic regulator an just one batterie.
It is since now really perfect. The solar panels gets power also when clouded, bcouse the regulator puts the 5v to 14V up, then just 1ampere.
the cooler hast a switch that powers off under 12.8V. Daytime I have plenty too much power, in the night the cooler stops, but was never warmer than 8degree.
All the ligths I changed to LED. What just is not installed yet a power switch, that turns all electricity off under 11.4V, to prevent starting problems.
But I will try to start the mercury 60HP by hand soon...
By this way I tray not to install a second batterie becouse of to much load...

Kurz, I'm hoping to buy my first panels this spring and I can't understand why you would have two totaling only 50W. I think this technology has increased so rapidly that it is now possible to get single 150W panels for about $225-250 (u.s.). Two of these, as well as extra battery's to take advantage of the supply gives a huge capability for accessories.
If solar is fed through an electronic controller, multiple banks of battery's will not present a 'load' to the panels, while charging or at night.
Not sure I would want to be revving my outboard for a period of time, while in neutral at a mooring, solely for the purpose of charging up a depleted storage system. Under way is a different matter but I like to stay anchored, and use my tender until the porta-potti says different.
Ross

[Divecoz]

Quick , Cheap, and an Easy Install.. Package of 6 AA Battery LED Peel and stick to install Lights.. Ivory or White.. about $20 USD's I have 2 High Quality LED's placed in Favorite READING areas for long term usage. The 2 AA's per light last me about 2 years.. I buy the Big Boxes of AA and C and D from Costco pretty cheap..

[RobertB]

At first, I tried to use an extension cord and automotive battery charger. After replaceing a few batteries, I upgraded to the following - still the most affordable for my requirements:

A keep the boat in the driveway so it is always plugged in.
I have two group 24 batteries and plan on a smaller battery to power a collapsable dingy.
I run an exterior grade extension cord (about 12 feet) to a ground fault interrupter (in a sealed enclosure) mounted under the rear table seat (late model ) Cord is stored in the battery compartment. I have an additional heavy duty 10 AWG cord and adapter for use in boat slips.
Next in line is a ProTech i-series battery charger (1230-i Plus). This charger is rated very high for charging and maintaining batteries. The "Plus" models (30 amps and up) are capable of charging different battery sizes at once. This is mounted low under the table and protected from contact with feet or meltables with a few aluminium towel bars that also ensure adequate air movement (will post a picture later). I checked with the manufacturer and horizontal mounting is acceptable (as long as the heat sink is "up"). Go online for much lower prices than West Marine.
Past the GFI, all wiring is marine grade.
Batteries are wired separately to the charger.
The location of GFI and charger near the batteries minimizes the wire run distance to allow me to use smaller gauge wire, provides a place with air movement to cool the charger, and a dry location for the charger electronics.
GFI gives me limited AC shore power (while still able to use DC power).
Future plans include adding the Blue Sea AC power breaker and marine grade extension cord.

I also keep a small ceramic heater going inside the boat in the winter (extra protection against freezing, keeps the boat dry, and comfortable when I go in to work on it).

[mastreb]

Just to be clear, I've never idled my motor to charge the battery--I've never had to. Just the incidental use of the outboard has kept my battery topped off.

You get a lot more mileage out of reducing power consumption as much as possible.

The biggest point here is to go slow, use the boat, and figure out what you need as you go. I wouldn't take someone else's word for what the motor will do because they don't use the boat the way you use it. I'd find out for myself whether the motor can keep the battery topped off. Multimeters are cheap ($20) at Radio Shack, and as long as it can keep the voltage above 12v it will be fine to start the outboard.

Putting a lot of money into what you think you might need will cost you a whole lot more than waiting until you know what you need. Can you rope-start the Yamaha? If so, that's your backup for a dead battery. If not, I'd carry a charged backup battery.

[robbarnes1965]

I have a two battery system with a house and starter battery. For most purposes it's enough.

Cutting consumption is the biggest first step. I converted all the lights to led which saved a lot and this spring I am giving my Waeco CF-50 fridge the heave-ho as it has a defective thermostat that sends it into random overdrive or hibernation either freezing everything solid or letting everything rot while simultaneously using a lot of amps. On my two week trip this summer I realized cheap ice was more reliable. I will get a better insulated large cooler and maybe a smaller one just to pack more ice.

If you are going to use an inverter for anything like charging my (90w) laptop, you will need something more that the engine as it will recharge the battery and keep your instruments running but gets taxed beyond that. It will not replace the amps drawn if you are also using a gps and keeping a phone charged as was the case for me during that same vacation. A good balance would be a decent size solar panel atop the bimini (80w+). It you like sailing you probably would prefer spending a little extra for no noise...

[RobertB]

Does anyone know of a solar cell that is flexible enough to be semi-permantly attached the bimini so it does not need a separate structure and can be stowed with the bimini?