How Many Guests?

[Greg]

This will be our first full summer with our 26X and the inevitable question will come up "can we all go out on your boat?" which prompts the question, how have others determined how many passengers you have taken out? How have you determined combination adult & kids, weight, width, water ballast full or empty, problems encountered from overcrowding etc., that you have taken out for a day trip?

I have read all the information I could find about the situation on Lake Champlain and would not like to dwell too much on that, since there seemed to be a chain reaction of ignorance, stupid mistakes and irresponsible behavior that contributed to that terrible accident.

I would like to hear others' ideas and personal experience with sailing and/or motoring excursions with max guests.

Thanks
Greg

[Sloop John B]

54 college kids in PFDs and swimming trunks.

For me, one other couple. That's a crowd. Anymore is really a crowd.

Duane sails with a raft of kids. I think he has them disciplined and lined up like Captain Von Trap, however.

[mike]

We've gone out with 4 adults and 2 kids, but that was only motoring.

--Mike

[Lorne Colish]

My wife and I learned to sail on a 26D with 4 very young kids as crew ,and we had a great time( though my wife would want to qualify that).We moved on after 5 years to a big,fat Buccaneer 27 just to get the space.Our kids have since grown up and moved out , and we bought a 26X 2years ago.We now enjoy sailing by ourselves,and sometimes with one kid at a time.At this stage of our lives,we'd restrict our sailing with other couples to day excursions.On our lake, we go out to different wilderness anchorages and all the time is spent on the boat,in the dingy or in the water, weather permitting.So a lot of time in close quarters.
So,it all depends.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Our crew is 2 adults and 3 kids, boys ages 7, 10, 14. The oldest is now the size of an adult although he still needs more meat on his bones.

We've had 4 adults and 6 kids on the boat at the same time. You won't all be in the cockpit, but there is more than enough room to be comfortable for an afternoon. I've also had 7 large adult males on board, it's crowded, but can be done. We were even all able to sit comfortably in the cabin.

Keep the weight low, don't line everyone up on the rail like rail meat in a race. You will problably want the ballast full even when motoring. Encourage some to hang out in the cabin.

[Tony D-26X_SusieQ]

A lot depends on the experiance of the passengers. If they are experianced crew you can manage with 6 in the cockpit and maybe a couple in the cabin. Since they will know how to stay out of your way. Deck bunnies however tend to always be in the wrong places and therefore you can only get 3 or 4 cumfortably in the cockpit and a couple more in the cabin. In any event do not exceed the number of personal flotation devices you have on board. You should always carry 1 per passinger and it never hurts to carry a couple of extras. In an emergancy you don't need people fighting over a PFD to distract you from what you are doing.

[John Hill]

We've gone out with 6 adults and we've gone out with 4 adults and 4 kids (one of those being a baby).

Wouldn't want to go much more than either situation mentioned. If you can travel on long tacks it's not such a big deal. If you are going to find yourself tacking often, it can be a hassle. Company is not much fun in high winds or heavy seas - choose your weather.

One smart thing to do is have a brief but serious talk with kids and adults about what they can expect and how they need to behave when you are tacking or otherwise busy handling your ship. Don't be afraid to take charge and order people around when you need to!

Keep your ballast full. Don't let people go climbing all over the boat while your underway. yadda yadda yadda. Mostly it's common sense.

[Catigale]

I would add the conditions would control how many I would take out

Calm water I have taken out 4 adults plus 4 kids

Full ballast
Lifejackets non-optional for everyone

You also have to have a serious conversation with guest parents about what they are going to do if their child falls in. The correct procedure is to NOT follow the child, of course, but some parents will not be able to stay on board.
Try to convince them their child can be recovered faster with only one in the water.

You need to tell them how to get overboard safely.
You need to know this to alter your POB procedure to include a two person pickup.

For our own kids, Twins age 7, we started an annual ritual last year of going overboard and recovering after the Admiral was our first non-scheduled POB.....

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

The correct procedure is to NOT follow the child

I'm not so sure that applies in every situation. When my kids were younger than 2, I think I would have wanted my wife to don a lifejacket and jump in there with them. Between 2-3 is probably marginal and older than 3, I would agree with your statement.

Most I've had on my boat is 3 adults and 4 children and it wasn't too bad as long as at least a couple people are down below. I would think one more adult would be the limit though...just too crowded after that.

In the Champlain incident, if the ballast were full and no one was on deck (which would imply at least half the people were below), I think the boat would have remained stable...would still have been damned crowded but I think the tragedy could have been avoided...which is one of the saddest things about an accident like that. I can personally certify that at least 1 out of every 2 boat captains out on the Florida waters are total idiot a$$holes and thats probably being generous.

[Frank C]

This might sound crass, but I think it's important to NOT BECOME the neighborhood hero boat cap't, offering everybody a day on the water. IMO, this boat is designed for a small family, or two couples.

One of my closest friends is a diabetic who weighs something over 300 lbs. I don't have a PFD to fit him. Even if I did, he's not agile enough to board the boat safely. There is simply no way I could really help him in an emergency or disaster, and the water in SF Bay is 60-degrees ... I doubt he could survive the half-hour it might take for help to arrive. I had to politely decline his request for a day on the water, and I told him why.

I wouldn't take my own Mother out either, age 80. I also won't offer to host my very close friend and her 20 month old baby. I am responsible for my crew, and I want to be capable of living up to that. Before inviting more than 4 adults along on the boat, consider their capabilities.

[Sloop John B]

Hey, chirp on you birds. I told you another couple is alright and more than that is a crowd.,

If you're on a calm birch barked little lake up North, don't disappoint the guests. Take the whole sh~t out in their PFDs and bathing suits.

hull with the ballast, let's see what this sucker can do.

Stay within 20 yards of the sandy beach and report back how you made out.

[Russell]

I the first summer I had my boat I had 7 rather large adults and the wind was about 22knots. I put up the sails and had a fun ride and the extra rail meat was necessary for the conditions but I would not recommend this to anyone. First, not everyone had sailing experience and it made it tough to work around them and secondly there was absolutly no room. Would I do it again, NO. I would suggest like others have already that 5 to 6 would be pushing the limits of being comfortable.

[Catigale]

I'm not so sure that applies in every situation.

Duanes right, of course, there are situations where it would make sense to go in. In calm water, if you were stopped or barely making way, you wouldnt add much complexity to getting to a child right away.



A couple of years ago I spent time thinking about the POB procedures and went around the yacht clubs talking it up.

The general rule is to not go overboard and heres why...

You are sailing at 5 mph which is about 7.5 feet per second.
After discovering the person is overboard, finding them, and deciding to jump in, anywhere from 5 to 10 seconds has elapsed, putting you 50-70 feet from the First POB.

Skipper now has to manuever boat through TWO POBS, one of whom is probably swimming, the other is likely being acted on by tides, waves.

This is not an easy task. Remember that the first person to spot a POB has the job of keeping watch on the POB....now you have two crew members needed to watch POBs, two overboard, and a helm...(how many are you sailing with, anyway???)

If you are under sail in the MAC, a crash stop is often a good way to quickly get to someone (wind and tides are important here though). Ive found my stops in about 2 boat lengths if I swish the helm back and forth as fast as I can. I can throw my Lifesling to a POB from that distance PAST them, then pull the line to bring it to the POB. I bet I can do that faster than most people can swim to the POB.

...and on the topic of kids overboard....not wearing lifejackets??


Stop reading here, turn in your boat and take up golf.....

Spend a couple minutes thinking about this before you start boating again, especially if you have kids on board please.

Catigale

[Moe]

I think it's important to recognize just how high the center of gravity of the fuel, and passengers, even those sitting in the cockpit, are on a Mac.



Looking at the picture above, I can see why you'd want someone below deck to offset someone having to go forward up on the deck, especially if the boat was unballasted.

From a practical standpoint, I'm going to go with Frank and John B, and say the X is a two-couple boat, giving one of the owning couple space to move from side to side to tend the sheets. Two adults and three kids, if one of the kids can tend the sheets on one side, should work too.

I'm sure some M owners won't agree, but IMHO, the cockpit is too tight, and the V-berth too short, to call it a two-couple, or two adult-three kid, boat.

Just looking at it, I'd limit the passenger load to about 600-700 lbs unballasted and sails down, and maybe 900 lbs or so ballasted and sails up. In the latter case, some are probably going to have to be below anyway, especially in the M.
--
Moe
.

[mtc]

can someone direct me to the news report on the Lake Champlain incident referred to in this string?