Topside Painting Advice

[tessmar]

I am considering re-painting the topside of my Venture 21 (from the rub rail up including the cockpit). While the boat is not cosmetically shabby looking, this area was painted at some point, and not particularly well. There are a number of scuffed areas, a few dings, and some "plugs" that were done to fill holes for some accessories that were later removed, but some of these were never even leveled off.

I have tried to wade through the forum to find painting information and did find quite a bit, but would really appreciate some direct input about my plan: Remove any cracked or dried out caulk from around stanchions and other fittings. Fill any dings and one small area of stress cracks with something like Marinetex. Renew caulk as needed. Mask fittings, mast step, stanchions, etc. Scuff sand using jitterbug, detail sander, and hand blocks with the finest grit feasible. Also level off "plugs." Prime with a leveling primer, using roller and brush. Apply one part paint such as Interlux or Petit. Mask off non-skid areas and paint in contrasting color. Use "roll and tip" technique on top color.

Does this sound like a rational approach? Any specific recommendations on materials (compatible paints, fillers, caulk, thinners, etc.)? If there is already a post or article on the site that covers this please just point me at it.

Thanks in advance for any comments.

[Steve K]

tessmar,

Rather than masking off the hardware, I would remove it all. Then after painting, re-bed and replace it.
Yea, it's more work, but the paint job will come out better and there will be no chance of paint peeling up around hardware. There is nothing worse than trying to paint around obstacles, if you're trying to get a good result. (why I just removed and replaced 50 knobs and 80 hinges, while re-painting my kitchen cabinets)

And, you'll cure all those interior leaks, as a bonus.

Problem is, it will take two people to get all the hardware off (one inside the boat and one outside).

Where sanding is concerned, Follow the product recommendations. One primer may call for a very fine sanding, before application, where another may require a more course sanding. (Example: Poly Primer needs the substrate sanded with #180 to #220). Also, sanding the primer coat, before top-coating, will usually require a different sanding schedule. This can also vari, depending on how you're going to apply the paint (brush, roller, or spray). So, always carefully read the directions for the product. Many paint products have online/phone tech help now too......... very handy

It sounds like you are basically on the right track though.


I'm no professional, but I have done a lot of this type of work.
Best Breezes,
SK

[Steve K]

Another thought...........
You should wipe everything down with a wax and grease remover, prior to sanding. Even if it seems as though there is nothing like this on the finish, there is and if not removed, sanding just grinds it further into the old paint. The result will be poor adhesion of the new paint.

Best Breezes,
SK

[tessmar]

Thanks, Steve
I had already decided to use Acryliclean before I started any sanding, but forgot to mention it in my post. Although I wasn't that great at it, I have painted at least four cars in my dim, dark, past, and pre-cleaning is indeed a vital step. In fact, failure to do so is one of the main reasons for problems like peeling or even fisheyes/bubbling later.

I appreciate the input about removing everything. The wood will, of course, have to come off...at least the hatch rails, since otherwise the hatch cannot be fully removed to paint the cabin roof. Interestingly, the only leak on the boat is a very slight drip from somewhere up top. When I first got the boat I had to leave it on the driveway while I cleared out space for it in my shop. It rained, and the interior had one small damp spot...not possible to figure out where the actual leak was. In the water the boat does not leak at all. So removal certainly wouldn't be a bad idea, and I'm not sure it really is all that more work than masking everything.

I really appreciate your verification that my general approach is reasonable.

As I recall, two of the cars I painted required masking and two were apart and did not. Good masking and prep work can ensure that there is no peeling and, if done really well, does not result in paint bleeding over fittings. But...the prior job on this boat was sloppy enough that there is already paint on some of the brackets. Of course, if I take them off I might be able to get the paint off (but then, I might also be able to do this with them "in place."

My fear in taking them off, and I've wound up in this situation before, is I'll wind up in a restoration project rather than just a cosmetic "brush up." There once was an article by a famous car writer titled "Stop me before I restore this car" that is the perfect illustration of the risk. The first sentence is "...And then one night over cigars and too much brandy I took the damn thing apart."

[Steve K]

tessmar,

How well do I know what you're talking about

I tend to be a restorer and I sometimes hate myself for it

I to, used to paint cars on what you might call a semi professional level and also was a hot rodder, back when there was no South Coast EPA and building a 500hp small block Chevy could be supported by a job @ Bakers, making tacos and burgers.

Anyway, I wanted to ask, why would you not spray the boat as apposed to brushing/rolling I've never been any good at brushing, or rolling, is mainly the reason I ask. There's nothing wrong with it.

Anyway, also wanted to say, you sound like you have a lot more experience at this than many people. You'll be fine. If you can make a car look good, boats are a piece of cake.

SK

[tessmar]

Steve

I said I painted four cars...I didn't say I was very good at it

Although I will say my Formula Junior came out pretty nice, especially considering that it was red with a fairly complex central white stripe that flared out to surround the nose. That was the last car I painted. I was becoming really uncomfortable with the newer catalyzed paints. I did the car outside and got in trouble with the local gendarmes. And when I viewed the youtube videos on boat painting the warning about spraying didn't exactly increase my comfort. I still have my respirator but not a positive flow bunny suit, etc. As you know, spray vapor is a lot more dangerous than the same paints applied with a roller and brush, so I think I'll stick with those.

I'm not looking for a 100 point concours restoration, just a little cleaned up look for the part of the boat that is the most visible. It by no means looks bad now, and I really don't think it will take much to add a whole lot of visual "pop."

[Steve K]

All good points.

I've been using gelcoat for several years now (on boats and pianos) and, believe it or not, it is way less toxic that some of the modern paints.

I still use a good respirator and wear a Tyvek® jump suit.

Not much scrutiny where I am, by the green police. (yet anyway)

Anyway........... nice chating with you. Have fun with it. Feel free to contact me....... always happy to help, if I can.

Best Breezes,
Steve K.

[genehacker]

Tessmar,

I am not sure where you are located but if its warm or hot when you sail you might want to go with white on the horizontal surfaces. My boat had dark blue topside paint and it got very hot even in moderate temperatures. 80 degree days and I couldn't stand on it with barefeet...and I almost always have bare feet when I sail. Anyhow I recently painted most of my deck white. I just used Rustolium topside paint from my local hardware store, it turned out pretty nice and its much cooler to touch. I really liked the look of the blue but I decided to go with function over style.

And a lighter color should help keep the interior cooler.

[tessmar]

Thanks, Gene
Good and interesting information. My instructor warned us against sailing barefoot...but I'm a Florida boy and keeping shoes on is always a problem for me

The Rustoleum info is really interesting. I have successfully used it to paint a tube frame for a race car and love the way it brushes on and flows out, but never considered it for Fiberglass. How long ago did you do the job and I assume it is holding up well without cracking, peeling, or blistering?

It does indeed get hot here in the summer...a number of days peak at over 100F, though this summer has been pretty mild. Normal is the mid 90s peaking at around 4 PM.

I do like the idea about two tone...but maybe I should consider reversing the scheme so the non-skid areas you actually walk on are white and the border areas are darker.

[stone_love]

my boat was two tone, dark blue on all walking/textured surfaces and white.

Just working on it in the yard barefoot made me decide on all white.

I used some poly based indoor/outdoor porch paint...poly based paint "should" last longer than rustoleum.

You don't need a primer to use it. Its made for outdoor porch purposes so as long as you sand/prep/clean properly it will last in high wear areas (mine has held up over a year with a restoration)


Its also UV resistant.

To fill in the cracks you could use a marine grade bondo, i used a bondo brand fiberglass resin jelly as it won't flake off/crack under stress like bondo as these boats do have some flex to them in some areas.

i think the price was $38 a gallon at homedepot, 2 gallons did my boat top and bottom plus cabin then i went over bottom with a bottom paint.

I've got enough left over to do the topside again when needed.

I highly suggest getting extra hands and removing all hardware, then reassembly. Plan on replacing a few of the nuts/bolts/screws/washers.

I also used this process as an excuse to beef up all my anchor points for standing rigging and running rigging.

[tessmar]

Thanks for the porch paint alternative.

Gene...any comments on how the Rustoleum has held up in this application? I've been a believer in their stuff for ages, but have not used it on Fiberglass. On metal that is outdoors and therefore also subject to sun and water it holds up very well.

[stone_love]

the topside paint is made for boat applicationg (hince the name "topside")

people have been using it on cars for ages as a cheap single stage paint alternative.

Having seen it on $50 paint jobs i think it looks fine when applied properly and most importantly prepped properly.

I don't know how well it will hold up to traffice as many boats have carpet in the heavily traveled areas compared to our sailboats.


It will stick to about any surface, fiberglass will be no issue for topside paint. IIRC you don't even need a primer.

[tessmar]

Stone_love

I think you lost me. I thought you were talking about a "poly based" porch paint, not the "Topside" paints made specifically for boats. So there are three options that have been aired here:
1. Topside paint sold by West Marine and others for boat application
2. Rustoleum
3. Poly based porch paint

You provided a comment about durability of the porch paint, and I was asking if Gene could comment on his experience with the durability of the Rustoleum. That is a product I have used in many applications and am quite comfortable with its application characteristics but have not used it on a fiberglass boat.

I have no doubt #1 will work, but have not used the product and, all other things being equal, would rather use something that I am familiar with (and which is lower cost) if possible, though I had not considered (not did I know about) other options besides #1 when I started this thread.

Thanks

[snotnosetommy]

Rustoleum now sells Topside paint for fiberglass. You can find it at the big box stores.

[tessmar]

Rustoleum now sells Topside paint for fiberglass. You can find it at the big box stores.

Great. I'll check it out! And thanks for the info