Electric Brakes

[Newell]

My local custom trailer maker told me that some new boats (Power) are using electric brakes and suggested I might want to convert my 26D trailer to electric. Since my tow vehicles are set up with brake controllers and my 26X trailer is electric over hydraulic with stainless discs already I'm thinking of giving it a try. Anybody have experience with electric brakes and water immersion

[Sumner]

I guess there are some newer electric that are designed from the start to be on boat trailers. I had to tow our car hauler 500 miles Monday and it has old style electric drum brakes on one axle. I don't like it and prefer the surge disc on the Mac trailer that I put on much better.

Are these electric you are looking at drum? The only type elect. I'm aware of and would not want them for sure if I was ever going to launch in salt water, even if it was only a couple times. I like the few parts and easy service on the surge disc myself and the fact I can tow with anything without special wiring and a controller.

I also know that after driving through this...



... at Bonneville I had to replace the back drum brakes on the truck, but the disc were ok,

Sum

===================================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[bartmac]

Trailer component resellers in Australia are telling me the corrosion of components are the same no matter what activates them ie drums discs etc...so I'm looking at electric...much easier to control and have a breakaway system

[Sumner]

Trailer component resellers in Australia are telling me the corrosion of components are the same no matter what activates them ie drums discs etc...so I'm looking at electric...much easier to control and have a breakaway system

I'd question some of that and I have both on trailers. Lots more parts in the brake drum vs. a piston on the disc.

The surge also have a breakaway system.

The surge needs no control so it is very forgiving with whoever is driving the tow vehicle. The harder you stop the harder they apply. On the Mac trailer with the surge disc braking feels almost the same as without the trailer. I find that I have to keep reminding myself the trailer is back there and I need to allow extra braking distance. A good elect. controller is almost the same, but sometimes getting it set right for the load is a pain. On my two trailers my butt is telling me that the disc are also contributing to the stopping a lot more than the elect. drums are on the car hauler.

The electrics are cheaper so have that advantage until you have to replace them or they don't work going back home on a trip. Now I think the ones Newell is talking about might be a non-standard electric and something designed for water and more expensive also. I'll be interested and hoping that he posts a link to the brakes they are recommending to him.

Your results may vary ,

Sum

===================================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[Newell]

I'm just getting started on this idea so I haven't yet looked for a marine version of electric drum brakes. I know the standard electric drum brakes they use on travel trailers would be the cheapest and most available. I have been trailering my 2 Macs long distances and to both fresh and salt water for many years and have had my share of problems with the surge drum type. Besides having the shoes de-laminate, (this would not be solved with electric) I have had problems with corrosion in the brake cylinder causing the piston to stay in a position of applying the brake while driving, thus overheating and a cascade of problems ensue. The last time surge disc brakes was discussed it seemed like the conversion was about 4 times the expense as surge drum.

Since my X trailer has a good set up I'm only concerned for the D trailer. I don't want to go with a tandem axle, since I'm keeping the boat light. Perhaps it would be better to replace the axle to a 3500# EZ Lube and spring for the discs. Will sell the boat in a couple of years so it sort of seems like a lost investment.

Will start pricing the options and post them next week.

[Tomfoolery]

Poking around etrailer.com, I see that new drum guts with backing plates plus new drums with bearings and seals runs about $250 per 3500 lb axle.

The same parts in disc format are the same money (not SS).

The coupler costs the same either way, though drum and disc use slightly different master cylinders. If switching to new disc brakes, you could just replace the master cylinder with the right type. That way, aside from the hydraulic lines, the whole hydraulic system would be new.

If you don't need new drums, you can save money by just replacing the shoe assemblies, which are already mounted to backing plates.

I went with the whole disc brake kit for a little over $400 (free shipping). SS equivalents obviously cost more, but for long term use in salt water, may be worth it. I haven't seen a SS kit for drum brakes, though I may have missed it.

This is the first trailer I've had with disc brakes, and I'll never go back to drums. In fact, I fried the drum brakes on all four wheels getting it home for the first time (brakes rusted and hanging), which was the impetus to scrap the whole system and start over. Other drum surge brakes systems I've had worked ok, but were hard to adjust, and leaked a lot.

[Newell]

This topic is dragging me in more than I thought it would.

"By far, the most common boat trailer braking system in use today is surge brakes. When the tow vehicle brakes are applied, the boat trailer pushes against an actuator located on the trailer tongue resulting in the brakes being engaged. Although surge brakes have proven themselves worthy of safe operation over the years, they are currently the center of a dispute regarding use on non-commercial utility and boat trailers. It is an issue of interpretation of a federal Department of Transportation law and whether or not surge brakes are legal. The Surge Brake Coalition, made up of utility and rental trailer companies as well as boat trailer builders has filed a petition with the USDOT asking for clarification regarding whether brakes on a non-commercial trailer are illegal if not controlled from the cab (as is the case with surge brakes). In a number of states (including Maryland), the federal view is considered the right view although no police units have been told to start making arrests.



Load-Rite Trailers President Bob Roseman sent a letter to then-Maryland Governor Parris Glendenning urging a settlement of the surge brake issue (this occurred after the state's Deputy Secretary of Transportation told BoatUS Trailering Magazine surge brakes are illegal on boat trailers but no violations will be cited). "The interpretation in Mar yland would have you switch from a proven braking system for boat trailers to a system that has had very limited use..." Roseman argued in the letter.



But until this issue is resolved, many boat trailer buyers (as well as current boat trailer owners) are looking at other options in the unlikely event the Surge Brake Coalition's effort is unsuccessful"

This quote is from BoatUS Trailering Club site: http://www.boatus.com/trailerclub/electric_brakes.asp

Apparently, I have been avised correctly and there are several trailer manufacturers placing electric brakes on boat trailers, pioneered by EZ Loader.

[Tomfoolery]

I thought that was in regards to interstate commerce (making it Federal), and was already settled anyway - surge brakes are A-O-K. Ruling came down in '07, I think. If I recall correctly, it all came about from Federal rules on braking requiring a 'single valve' to control all the brakes, which was obviously aimed at heavy trucks, trailer trucks, and air brakes (specifically), with the unintended consequence of making surge brakes, which I don't think had even been invented then, non-conforming.

Article summarizing use of surge brakes in interstate commerce. http://www.centrevilletrailer.com/news- ... akelaw.htm

Original memorandum of understanding. http://www.bipac.net/ararental/Trailer_ ... 091404.pdf

[RobertB]

"A four-year tussle ended in May when Maryland passed a law defining the legal use of surge brakes. House Bill #551 passed the house and senate unanimously and was signed by Gov Robert Ehrlich, thus allowing surge brakes on trailers with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of 10,000 lb or less. A ratio of 1.50:1 (trailer to tow vehicle GVWR) is imbedded in the bill, preventing a small vehicle from towing a large trailer. The new law takes effect on October 1.

The Maryland Department of Transportation had banned all surge brakes, with the State Police primarily enforcing the ban only on commercial trailers."
http://trailer-bodybuilders.com/mag/tru ... ak_brakes/

[Tomfoolery]

Thanks for that. From the article:

Says Doran, “When the FMCSA regulations talk about brakes, they're really written for air brakes on tractor-trailers. So there's no way that surge brakes or electric brakes on small trailers could comply.”

That's the only way the 'single valve' requirement makes sense. It doesn't prevent the existence of the trolley brake (controls the trailer brakes only), but it does require that all the brakes work together when you step on the brake pedal, so you don't have to use hands and feet to stop the rig normally.

Like Ricky and Lucy trying to stop their car with that giant trailer in "The Long Long Trailer".

[RobertB]

I also like the single valve language. Todays cars with anti-lock, traction control, and spin protection systems have complex valve bodies that did not exist when the Federal law was drafted.

I could also intrepret surge brakes as being connected to the vehicle brakes - connected via the structure of the vehicle thru the trailer hitch/tongue.

[Sumner]

I've read some of those articles before and I feel they are trying to steer you into their products by more or less scare tactics and as has been posted surge disc brakes are still legal for our application. I'll also say that I wouldn't want surge drum any more than I'd want elect. due to all the parts being exposed to corrosion.

We got our complete kit from these guys ...

http://www.blackbearsportinggoods.com/B ... d82405.htm

...a couple years ago for under $400 at the time (check their pricing often as it goes up and down).



http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... ods-8.html

I was very happy with the kit and used it as is for brakes on the rear axle.

I've also seen the same kit from....

http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Brakes/ ... 43100.html

...the place in the link above for under $400 at times,

Sum

===================================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[Catigale]

To go from a simple, self-regulating brake system like surge to electrical makes no sense to me in the corrosive marine environment...