Brakes not dis-engaging -- VERY hot!!!

[c130king]

My time sailing in the Chesapeake and from Casa Rio Marina has finally come to an end.

Today my buddy and I got König all packed up and ready for the 1000 mile trip to my new home on the Mississippi Gulf Coast. Taking down the mast and getting everything ready for the road went very smooth...so smooth that I (stupidly... ) said "This is going way to smoothly...something is going to go wrong".

Before:



After:


And sure enough we drove about 7 miles down the road and stopped at a Wendy's for a burger and when we got out of the truck we noticed the smell of overheating brakes. The front wheel on both sides were too hot to touch and the heat was causing the grease to expand and squirt out the front of the bearings.

After the burgers were devoured we went back out and investigated. Couldn't tell what was wrong. Brakes are on both sides, front wheels only, and both were very hot but cooling. Called Tony (you didn't answer your phone) and called Victor (via Kendall...you didn't answer either) for some advice...they were the only two I had the numbers for on my phone. So we went next door to West Marine. The guy there never had a trailer with brakes so he called another store and this guy seemed to be pretty smart. He said there is a spring that will push the brake pads off of the rotor and that if it hasn't been used much it might have some rust and gotten stuck.

He recommended to remove the wheels and the castle nut (???) holding the brakes together and clean that spring.

The brakes were not "locked up". The wheels would turn just fine and I couldn't feel any braking action when I took my foot off the brakes. But they were squeezed together enough to build up friction and get hot. And I had my buddy drive the truck slowly while I listened at the wheels and I think I could hear the brake pads rubbing.

We drove it back to the Marina instead of the 65 mile trip I had planned to a friends house for the last two weeks of storage. I slammed on the brakes a few times to see if maybe I could get the brakes to disengage during the 7 mile ride back to the marina. But I don't think it worked very well...they were hot again and could still smell burning brakes.

So who has any advice for me?

I have one weekend left in Virginia before the drive to Mississippi on 1 September. I am going to call Dave's Boat Trailers in Glen Burnie, MD tomorrow as that is where I bought it (Load-Rite Dual Axle Aluminum) last June (just over a year old) and see what they tell me. Then I am going to call the maintenance shop at Casa Rio Marina and see if this is something they can work on. Will probably just pay for them to fix if they can. Otherwise I guess I will go see if I can do anything to fix this. I have never worked on brakes before so I have VERY limited knowledge on this subject...just what I have read here.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Cheers,
Jim
Sailing on König
Sailing on König YouTube Channel

[Fxwg80hd]

Jim - you have disc brakes so the advice from West Marine does not sound correct. Since it is both brakes, I would guess your trailer tongue needs grease. I suspect that when you stopped it compressed engaging the brakes and when you pulled forward again it did not extend back out. I will PM you my phone number as there are a couple other things you can check, but since it is both brakes the trailer tongue or master cylinder are most likely the problem.

[c130king]

Chris,

Sounds logical. I am probably going to skip out early one day...or skip a day entirely...this week and go out and examine that. But I will call the trailer dealership first and see what they tell me.

But the tongue is extended because I can still stick the pin in the manual "reverse lock-out" hole...which I normally need to do when backing. The electric solenoid lock-out doesn't seem to work correctly.

Thanks.

Cheers,
Jim

[Tomfoolery]

The electric solenoid lock-out doesn't seem to work correctly.

That's where I'd start, given that statement. There are two types of solenoid - one with a closed center, that doesn't allow fluid to flow until it's energized, and the other with open center, which allows fluid to flow until it's energized, at which point it blocks flow.

The closed-center type has 3 ports, and when you energize it, it allows brake fluid to flow through the (now open) third port back to tank. No pressure can build, but the coupler can compress and move the master cylinder, but no pressure can be sent to the wheel calipers. It's basically a tee connection with the third port blocked until you energize the solenoid.

The open-center type is a 2-port valve, and all it does when you energize it is block flow, in either direction. If the brakes are partially applied and you energize it, it will trap the fluid in the calipers, holding the brakes on. Expanding fluid, from the calipers heating, will actually increase the pressure in the calipers, making it worse.

If you have the closed-center type (no third line or hose back to the reservoir), then it's possible it's stuck closed, holding the brakes on somewhat. It's also possible it's energized and you don't know it.

Another thing that's possible is that the master cylinder isn't being allowed to extend all the way when the brakes are not applied. The fluid is trapped in the calipers, and heating causes them to drag. This actually happened to me on a british sports care many, many moons ago. It was a matter of adjusting the master cylinder linkage to the bore was opened to tank when extended, which was not the case.

Also, drum brake master cylinders have a residual pressure valve built into them to hold some small pressure in the wheel cylinders, always. Disc brake master cylinders don't have that, and if they did, the brakes would drag.

[Catigale]

Jim...you might not have bad brakes, but cooked bearings. The smell will be similar...evil melted grease.

You will need to deal with this because a massive failure will mean wheel loss.

On edit...both sides hot? This does point away from wheel bearing failure and to the brakes.

The caliper probably need to be checked for being frozen and have the sliding surfaces greased.

[Crikey]

Jim, be real careful about touching a failed bearing anywhere, they can get red hot before all the rollers fail (usually catastrophically). You could open the hydraulic bleeder and totally disable the brakes if the master cylinder was seized on, but that is not something I would take to a roadway. Spring schming! Success with bleeding would confirm a stuck activator. Eitherway you're in a passle of trouble!

[RobertB]

Jim,

I agree with most here that the problem is not the calipers (although, disks and pads may have been damaged).
To eliminate the bearing issue, jack up each wheel and spin if you can, wiggle if you cannot. If bearings have locked up, there is likely going to be metal dust from the balls and races disintegrating. Since it is two wheels, I do not think this is the problem - I do not believe in coincidences.
I tend to agree the problem is in the trailer tongue area. Either the tongue is not extending thus releasing the brake pressure, or the solenoid valve is not working (releasing when voltage removed). I recently had brakes locking in reverse (the solenoid not activating) - I took everything apart and found the solenoid had a bad ground path due to corrosion. I added a ground wire to the solenoid running to a hard frame ground. I also lubricated the tongue assembly.
Because you are not releasing, I guess the problem is one of three specific causes:
1) Your tongue is not extending
2) Your reverse lights are staying on - thus keeping the solenoid activated
3) Your solenoid failed in the activated position

For 1, pull forward and check the position of the pins in the slots on the trailer tongue. If full forward, everything should be OK.
For 2, get out a meter and check for voltage on the fifth trailer harness pin (to ground)
For 3, after eliminating the other causes, crack open a brake line fitting and see if this releases the brakes. The solenoids are pricey - around $100 if I remember.

BTW, I have never seen a brake disk caliper with an internal spring to retract the piston.

[Hamin' X]

Jim,
BTW, I have never seen a brake disk caliper with an internal spring to retract the piston.

Agreed. I would suspect a rusty master cylinder, or other problem up front. Disk brakes depend upon a microscopic amount of runout on the rotors, or wheel bearing slop to puch the pads back. The chances of both sides having zero slack is next to impossible.

~Rich

[c130king]

Fellas...THANKS!

I am pretty sure the tongue is extending. There is a hole in which I can stick the lock-out pin and when the trailer is compressed that hole is covered by the compression of the tongue and when extended I can see the hole and insert the pin. I can see the hole and insert the pin. So tongue is extended.

I use this lock-out technique all the time as my brakes frequently lock up when backing into my parkng spot at the marina...another clue that maybe I have a bad solenoid.


Which now leads me to think solenoid issue. Can anyone give me more info on how to check for this solenoid issue?

I will re-grease the bearings before I hit the road. The heat forced out a lot of grease from the front bearings.

Cheers,
Jim

[Fxwg80hd]

Jim - here is a link to your owners manual. It contains a whole section on maintaining the brakes.
http://www.loadrite.com/pdf/LoadRite-Ow ... al0311.pdf

Look at page 18 in the note:

IMPORTANT - BLEED YOUR BRAKES
Bleeding the brake hydraulic system at each caliper should be part of annual trailer maintenance. Brake fluid absorbs moisture and becomes ineffective at converting hydraulic pressure to braking action. It is possible for the brakes to become ineffective or even lock during operation if the fluid is not serviced annually.

[Highlander]

If ur wheel bearings got that hot I would be replacing the wheel seals before the next launch , check ur calipers they have sliding guide pins if the boots are cut & water has got in their they will stick on also the guides that the pads are kepted in place with should cleaned & lubed if the trl has been sitting outside for a while & not been used this is a common problem & not a big job to do re check wheel bearing end play also

J

[Fxwg80hd]

I agree with Highlander, since your wheel bearings got so hot I would repack them with new grease.

[kmclemore]

Bearings and seals are relatively cheap and easy to replace... so, I suggest you replace the bearings, bearing races and the seals if they've overheated or even if they're just old - there's no reasonable reason not to... it ensures safety and provides smoother running on the road.

[c130king]

Having never done anything to my bearings other than pump in some grease into the bearing buddies can anyone give me any more detailed info on how to remove and replace these bearings...and all the associated hardware?

Using a 1-10 scale to rate my "mechanical knowledge and abilities" I am probably sitting around a 2. I know the difference between a phillips head and a straight slot screwdriver...at least I get that one right about 8 times out of 10...

Trailer Wheel Bearing Set -- Is this what I will need?

Any links to video or pictures of how this is done?

Looks like I have an excuse to skip out of work on Thursday and go work on this.

T-minus 10 days until I have to hit the road for Mississippi.

Thanks again for all the advice.

Cheers,
Jim

[Tomfoolery]

etrailer.com has lots of videos of this and related work. Here's a generic video of the work you're looking to do.

http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Bearing ... 2-100.html

I don't know what axles your trailer has, so there's no way to know what bearings and seals they need. Do try to use double-lip seals, though, since the axles will be dunked in water.