easier pin'ing of the furler forestay (26X)

[Sumner]

Sum,

I followed Laika's modification on this site: http://www.macgregorsailors.com/modt/in ... ?view=1547 and it works fine.

Thanks, now I see how it is pinned . In the picture of it on Defender....



...I thought the forestay/furler drum had to attach along the side in one of the adjustment holes there and didn't see how that was possible.

I see that in the install....



...that it is actually turned the other way around with the furler drum attached to the other end and then the holes in the side are attached to the deck fitting.

Did you also move the hounds on the mast up a couple inches? Is yours mounted at the deck the same about 2 holes up? It looks like the further up you would be on the holes the more slack when open, but harder to close and then the lever might end up running into the deck. Is that right? The other ones I posted operate somewhat different as....



.... you have the same leverage at any of the mount locations. They do cost about twice as much,

Sum

===================================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[Azzarac]

Yes, I set mine up just as pictured. I did however move the hound up instead of installing a new, secondary one. The handle will touch the deck but I have yet had an issue with it striking hard. There isn't a lot of tension once it begins to release and it is easy to close with a firm grip. I thought of using the one you pictured, but if memory serves I believe that one is about 7 inches in length and I wasn't sure of the effects of that much geometric change.

[innervations]

So am I correct in assuming that you cannot add a Johnson lever without moving the hound up the mast? Quick release and attachment on the water would be great as I am using a new sailing area that has a low bridge at the entrance. Is there other adjustment I can make without drilling holes in the mast etc? Any other tips for pinning the forestay while on the water? I will try using the anchor roller and cockpit winch.

[Spector]

Has anyone installed the lever on the backstay on an ? Would this work to create the slack needed to pin the furler?

[Sumner]

Has anyone installed the lever on the backstay on an ? Would this work to create the slack needed to pin the furler?

I just don't see this as working as the backstay on our boats that have one is there more to tune the rig by inducing bend in the top of the mast or helping to support it going downwind. The back stay is usually never tensioned as much as the forestay. So if you tried to tension the forestay with the backstay you would have way more tension and bend in the mast than what you want.

As far as drilling holes in the mast. A couple more holes a few inches up the mast in order to move the hounds is not going to weaken the mast to any noticeable degree. If you go more than a couple inches like we did then I think it is prudent to move the shrouds up also (maybe a good time to finally replace them).

In our case moving the forestay up the mast some allowed us to still use the original forestay inside of it if we want. The....



... original hounds are where the top arrow is above with the new ones and the furler above that point. The original forestay can be...



...pinned to the bracket above on the bow roller assembly.



You would not want to use this option as an extra safety option to keep the mast from falling as it would be a pain to get the head sail to come across. I have it so that if we wanted we could still use our original hank-on jib if we wanted to or possibly a smaller storm sail which we don't own at this time. Also I'd like to try and run the Genoa off one side of the boat and our old jib of Genoa off the other side hanked onto the old forestay. Haven't done it yet but I've hear of cruisers running with the wind with two head sails (one on the wisker pole). They like it as you don't run the main, so worries of an accidental jibe go away,

Sum

===================================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[DaveB]

I have the Johnson Backstay adjuster and has worked great past 4 years.
Haveing a Headstay johnson lever is better but as I just stated thru bolts will weaken mast,
Dave

I just don't see this as working as the backstay on our boats that have one is there more to tune the rig by inducing bend in the top of the mast or helping to support it going downwind. The back stay is usually never tensioned as much as the forestay. So if you tried to tension the forestay with the backstay you would have way more tension and bend in the mast than what you want.

As far as drilling holes in the mast. A couple more holes a few inches up the mast in order to move the hounds is not going to weaken the mast to any noticeable degree. If you go more than a couple inches like we did then I think it is prudent to move the shrouds up also (maybe a good time to finally replace them).

In our case moving the forestay up the mast some allowed us to still use the original forestay inside of it if we want. The....



... original hounds are where the top arrow is above with the new ones and the furler above that point. The original forestay can be...



...pinned to the bracket above on the bow roller assembly.



You would not want to use this option as an extra safety option to keep the mast from falling as it would be a pain to get the head sail to come across. I have it so that if we wanted we could still use our original hank-on jib if we wanted to or possibly a smaller storm sail which we don't own at this time. Also I'd like to try and run the Genoa off one side of the boat and our old jib of Genoa off the other side hanked onto the old forestay. Haven't done it yet but I've hear of cruisers running with the wind with two head sails (one on the wisker pole). They like it as you don't run the main, so worries of an accidental jibe go away,

Sum

===================================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links[/quote]Wrap around mast strap on 3rd pic., how do you raise main past it and what is the Jib halyard pully doing there?
I dont like the Idea of raiseing the Hound up 4-6 inches that require another tru bolt that weakens the mast.
I do like the idea that one only has to thru bolt 4-6 inches without sail cuts and shorting standing rigging.I have the Johnson lever on backstay
so I can pin the forestay.
It works just fine but if I was to Get a New Headstay I would shorten the Headstay by 6 inches, include the Johnson lever and Shorten headsail Luff by 6 inches.
Most pictures I see of the Johnson lever at the Headstay is all the way to last pin without any adjustments.
Keeping Headsail up higher by 8 inches greatly increases View forward.
Fact remains that the Johnson lever at Headstay is best for tight Standing rigging and Backstay Johnson lever is second best.
All depends on you installing it on headstay and if raiseing the Hound is worth the loss of strength /or shorten headstay and luff of sail.

Dave

Sum,

I followed Laika's modification on this site: http://www.macgregorsailors.com/modt/in ... ?view=1547 and it works fine.

[Tomfoolery]

Has anyone installed the lever on the backstay on an ? Would this work to create the slack needed to pin the furler?

Mine came with a small turnbuckle on the backstay. I find that, even with the backstay adjusted for snug during sailing, I can't make the pin for forestay/furler when raising the mast. So I loosen and remove the backstay, overtighten the MRS so I can make the pin to the stem fitting, slacken the MRS, and then attach and snug the backstay.

The slack in the forestay comes from stretch in the shrouds and (presumably) deflection in the hull when overtightening the MRS. A Johnson lever would do the same thing, I suppose, but I don't think it's worth it for me, as there are many others places I could use that money.

[Sumner]

.Wrap around mast strap on 3rd pic., how do you raise main past it and what is the Jib halyard pully doing there?
I dont like the Idea of raiseing the Hound up 4-6 inches that require another tru bolt that weakens the mast..

Not real sure what the question about "how do you raise the main past it" is as I think some of it got cut off in the post.



The picture above was taken when we first got to Florida. I'd made new standing rigging and started to adjust it at home in 30 deg. weather and snow and thought that was stupid as we were going to Florida. So when we got there I finished the job and was doing that when the picture was taken

In the picture the mast raising gin pole is in place and the jib halyard was going to it so that I could lower the mast when needed while I adjusted the shrouds. The pulley is still on the original hounds as long with the original forestay which is wrapped around the mast were it stays. The pulley/jib halyard stay in place for mast raising/lowering and also just in case we need to use one of the hank-on sails we take with us.

I'd need an engineer to convince me that two 1/2 inch holes in the cross-section of the mast is going to substantially weaken it. Now I can see a problem if you raise the forestay hound much and leave the shrouds in their original position as now you have a lever arm being pulled by the forestay about a pivot point where the shrouds are connected to the mast. A couple inches is probably fine.

In our case raising the shrouds along with the forestay leaves all of the forces still acting at the same point just higher. The original hound lower is not a major load. A number of boats have run a temporary inner stay like that with a storm sail on it.

We went with a little longer Johnson Lever than what most go with when using a 1/8th inch forestay and this one is rated at the same load as the 5/32nd forestay we are using. We, especially Ruth, really like the increased visibility now under the Genoa. I'm sure someone who is a racer and not a cruiser like we are would notice the difference, but for us it has been a good deal,

Sum

===================================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[Octaman]

Hi everyone and Happy New Year.

One more point of concern that has not been raised in any of the great post of this thread is that by changing the position of the mast hound you are in fact meddling with your sailplan.
Your sails are cut to the specific geometry of the rig with the hound in a specific position. If you move the masthound you are changing the rig design and your foresail will not trim as well as in the original position it was designed for.

I suggest, rather than moving the hound, just shorten the forestay.
Alternatively, you can make new foresails Ha! Ha!

With the simple talurit ferrules on the ends of the wire that are used on our boats it costs very little to shorten the wire/forestay with two new talurit pressings – shortening one end of the wire. Surely costs less than buying a new masthound and your foresails will continue to operate with maximum efficiency.

Happy Sailing,

Octaman

[133bhp]

Personally I was too cheap/not too keen on drilling holes to go the jonhson lever. an Adjustable backstay (for pini'ing) seems like a waste of money too by my experiemce. As even wIth what were on the loose side shrouds to begin with, and my backstay removed I still could'nt get get enough slack by hand, certinaly on the water, unless I lossened the forstay on the tubrbuckle, which then was itself too loose. Now, with a small cheapo ratchet trimmed to length, with a loop around the furler, I can get everything tight/not skin my knuckles, then chuck it in the anchor locker until needed.



FyI, when I was doing a lots of stepping, I kept the raising pole vertical against the mast, bungeed around the baby stay bolt, rather than in the way/over the hatch, on the deck.. The old forestay rope doubles as the backup/mast raising, on the same tang as fulrer and have never hung up yet. A couple of preset loops in it means I can clip it to the correct position for mast raising or to the pulpit as a backup.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

I moved my forestay attachment 4 inchs higher than where the shrouds attach and 6.5 years later, I haven't had any problems. I also wondered a bit about lever arms but the backstay also pulls against it and that is at the top of the mast. I also had stock shrouds so to raise those, I would have needed longer ones...and not to mention the fact that I was also trying to reduce the mast rake somewhat so if I used longer shrouds, I also would have had to have a custom forestay built shorter as well.

I also don't think it changes the sailplan since I'm still using the same sails and the furler just slides all the way down the forestay anyway. I was also worried that if I shortened the forestay, that the furler and 2 headsails I have would no longer fit.

I also added a spinnaker block 8 inches above the forestay and got rid of the stock jib block since I use a furler. Although I know Dave will say it takes too long, I use the 26X mast raising system for easiest pinning of the forestay. I don't believe there is any other good way to raise the mast singlehandedly with the weight of a furler, genny and sunbrella cover on the genny and still have proper tension on the rigging.

[raycarlson]

Regarding the M model with no backstay, I used Sum's idea,to add a turnbuckle to the forestay.I just raised everything 10 inches.Does it affect sailplan??? yes a tiny bit but on a Mac who cares, your forward vision is now much better.Does an extra 3/8 inch hole weaken the mast?? a tiny bit yes,but in reality you could drill a 3/8 inch hole every 6 inches the entire length of the mast and it wouldn't sacrafice any stress loading factors on a Mac at all.does bending the tip of the mast affect trimming??? yes a little bit,but with a turnbuckle it's very easy to fine tune. So everything you do effects something a little bit,the question is does the outcome of change create a benefit greater than any negative factor the change might have caused. Of course any thing to do with opinions about changing our macgrergors will cause huge variations in theories due to the level of armchair engineering we all aspire to here on the forum.

[Sumner]

... So everything you do effects something a little bit,the question is does the outcome of change create a benefit greater than any negative factor the change might have caused. Of course any thing to do with opinions about changing our macgrergors will cause huge variations in theories due to the level of armchair engineering we all aspire to here on the forum.

Good post . I feel a number of people are hesitant to post on these boards since their ideas/mods get picked to death.

I don't think raising or lowering the head sail a foot or so has any more difference that going from a jib to a 135 or 150 Genoa or changing you main to a different one with no battens or full battens or loose footed or running with 6 people in the cockpit vs. 2 or any number of other things we do with these boats,

Sum

===================================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[Spector]

I read on another forum recently..

"Arguing on a forum is like trying to teach a dog to talk"

Not that anyone is arguing on this one but still sums up most forums. I have to say this is the most well behaved forum I have ever been on. Most I get so frustrated with I quit going back

[Spector]

Has anyone installed the lever on the backstay on an ? Would this work to create the slack needed to pin the furler?

I just don't see this as working as the backstay on our boats that have one is there more to tune the rig by inducing bend in the top of the mast or helping to support it going downwind. The back stay is usually never tensioned as much as the forestay. So if you tried to tension the forestay with the backstay you would have way more tension and bend in the mast than what you want.

On the if remove the backstays chainplate or modify its length so that the johnson lever makes up the same length in its closed position, this is not going to effect the final tension. Its a 'like for like'