New Solar Panel

[Retcoastie]

Sea Wind,

My guess is you did everything correctly. What I suspect the 16V reading is, is the open circuit output of the solar panel. With the switch turned on you are reading the circuit voltage and the amperage out of the solar panel into the circuit. With the switch off, the current has went to zero but the solar panel is still producing output (16V). I can easily be proven by covering the panel and checking the voltage. If right, the voltage output from the panel will go to zero. If voltage remains, well never mind, disregard.

Good luck

Ken

[Boblee]

Sumner
Hmmm If the wiring is as per the circuit you showed the seperate isolator is bypassing the function of the both position on the c/o switch and by selecting the 1 and 2 is non functional as both batteries are already connected together.
Yes my c/o switch stays in both when charging but do isolate the start if stopped and using power (if I remember).
Sorry if I missed something earlier but looking at circuits and thinking about electrical stuff is not my favourite pastime so tend to avoid it.

Kadet
Yeah started in general country contracting and then covered pretty well every aspect through both maintenance,commercial, contruction, instruments etc , being a bit slack and trusting I tended to find how things worked the hard way but was fortunate not to personally cop the destruction effects of high fault currents but got close a couple of times hence my wariness of wire fuses which IMHO are only there to protect the feed wires to their rated capacity anything else like appliances should be individually protected or as you so aptly put it "the magic smoke effect".
My fail safe method instead of the back of the hand was a screwdriver especially after a TA saw me do it and burnt the back of his hand off behind a switchboard 415v across that soft skin is not good when you can't fall off and get caught there, he made more noise than a screwdriver arcing too.
Sorry seawind and others for hijacking the thread you can have it back now as we are heading off:D

[Sea Wind]

The correct link should have been this:
http://bluesea.com/files/resources/appl ... ter_WD.pdf

Again, I have everything wired like that excet the negative from the panel goes to the regulator/negative bus bar/shunt.

Went back to the boat today, here is what I found:
Panel unplugged and switch off then multimeter is off (as it used to be).
Panel unplugged and switch on then ammeter at 0 with load panel off and voltmenter at 12.9V (as it used to be)
Panel plugged and switch on then voltage at 13.4 and ammeter at 1amp
Panel plugged and switch off then voltage started at 16 and kept increasing to 19V at which point I unplugged it, ammeter was showing 0amp.

With the switch off, the current has went to zero but the solar panel is still producing output (16V

Is this a problem?
Does that mean that the regulator might be configurated for 24v as I saw higher voltage than 16?
I left it unplugged for the week but still not sure if there is something wrong. I am calling solarboulevard tomorrow. Stay tuned...
FYI, the regulator manual says that there should be a fuse between the regulator and the battery.

[DaveB]

I have two 40 watt panels that have 12 guage wiring that goes direct to regulator than a Fuse buss that goes between regulator and two 12 volt house batteries in series.
The voltage after the regulator should be at tops around 13.8 volts with direct sunlight but this could be lower due to Battery charge or cloudy weather.
Ck your voltage at battery/cigerate lighter socket, not before the regulator.
Most Solar Panels will register 17 or more volts before the regulator.
My system works great and simple, I do have a Diode that seperates the twin House batteries from Engine starter battery so they are always seperated .
Chargeing batteries from outboard and solar panels always feed the lower discharge batteries first and that would be the house batteries.
Hope this helps.
Dave

[kadet]

Panel plugged and switch on then voltage at 13.4 and ammeter at 1amp

As it should be float charge maintaining batteries, will rise to 14.5 when batteries are low and is charging. AMPs seems a little high but meter may not be that accurate I normally have a couple to a few hundred mA on float.

Panel plugged and switch off then voltage started at 16 and kept increasing to 19V at which point I unplugged it, ammeter was showing 0amp

As it should be as this is the short circuit voltage from the panels not under load.

My main observations are.

Why do you want the solar disconnected from the batteries in an off situation as you should be using the PVto maintain a float charge to protect the batteries from self discharge?

The attached diagram has no off only Batt 1 or Batt 2 so solar is always charging a battery.

Also most 12/24V regulators require the connection sequence as.
Battery
PV
Load

In this way they auto sense the correct system voltage.

By turn your batteries off and disconectign them from the regulator then turning them back on you are in fact connecting
PV
Battery
Load

This could lead to a situation where the regulator incorrectly detects a 24V system if the PV is putting out excessive voltage or you later install a second panel in series. The regulator could then start over charging your batteries and kill them in short order.

Wire the PV regulator directly to the batteries and always have one, preferably both connected. If you must charge them separably put a bat1 bat2 switch in the line with no off.

[kadet]

12 volt house batteries in series.
The voltage after the regulator should be at tops around 13.8 volts with direct sunlight but this could be lower due to Battery charge or cloudy weather.

Hope you meant parallel as in series would be a 24V system

And again depending on the regulator things should be like this for a 2 stage charger.

13.2 - 13.6 on float depending on temp. (battery 90-100% of full charge)
14.4- 14.5 for charging (battery less than 90% of full charge)
Some a short burst at 15-15.5 for equalisation.

Most electronic regulators have 3 stage charging sometime 4 if they include equalisation.
Bulk - 14+
Trickle - High 13s
Float - Low 13s

[Sumner]

Sumner
Hmmm If the wiring is as per the circuit you showed the seperate isolator is bypassing the function of the both position on the c/o switch and by selecting the 1 and 2 is non functional as both batteries are already connected together...

Yes in our case the the switch is there to only turn the load on or off and the batteries are always connected as long as the other switch is closed. The only reason I would ever use the switch as a selector switch is if one of the batteries had a major problem and I wanted to take it out of the circuit. Then I could open the one switch and use the other to select which battery the loads were drawing from.

We've never had a situation where I had to pull start the outboard, but since it is only 9.8 hp that would be no problem. Since we like to cruise if we had an X or M we would have two 6 volt batteries as a house bank and one smaller 12 volt as a starter battery and have the charging all go to the house bank with a combiner (ARC) between them and the start battery.

We had our switch wired similar to the way you have yours and most others have theirs for a year or two. The problem with that is you can't have the batteries combined together and also have the loads disconnected at the same time if you want. In our case we can now have the solar charging both batteries when we aren't using the boat and still have the loads disconnected at the same time which provides some safety,

Sum

===================================
Our MacGregor 26-S
Our Endeavour 37
Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida
Mac-Venture Links

[Sumner]

...Panel plugged and switch off then voltage started at 16 and kept increasing to 19V at which point I unplugged it, ammeter was showing 0amp.....

If you wired it as per that diagram with the switch off the amps will always be zero. At what points is the voltmeter attached or is the meter both? If the meter displays both functions and is wire per the diagram to the one post on the switch then it should show no voltage when the switch is off. Do you have a link to the meter your are using?

Also is there any chance that you bought a 24 volt panel? Do you have a link to the panel and its specs?

Sum

===================================
Our MacGregor 26-S
Our Endeavour 37
Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida
Mac-Venture Links

[Retcoastie]

Sea Wind,

Sounds just fine to me. That is exactly what you should be reading in the configurations listed. The 16V climbing to 19V is not a problem and perfectly normal with the switch off. You can leave the panel connected.
Congratulations on a good install.

Ken

[kadet]

Also is there any chance that you bought a 24 volt panel? Do you have a link to the panel and its specs?

Couldn't be otherwise he would be seeing 30+ volts from the PV at short.

PV voltage only references the system it is designed to charge.

I.E
a 12 volt PV produces up to 19 volts so it can charge a 12 volt system
a 24 volt PV produces up to 30 volts so it can charge a 24 volt system.

And even if he has a 24 volt panel (highly unlikely for a mere 40 Watts) the regulator will step that down to the battery system voltage for charging, that is why the battery must be connected to to the regulator first to correctly id the system voltage. You can normally series up to two 12V panels into a typical boat/rv/camping regulator or parallel up to it's rated AMPs depending on it's specs.

Sea Wind's controllers specs looking at the pic he supplied is a Sunsaver 10A and they are;
Power Rating
Rated Solar Input 10 A
Rated Load Output 10 A
Load inrush capability 100 A
Voltage 12V DC
Control Set points
Regulation point 14.3 V
Boost 14.4 V
Float 14.0 V
Low voltage disconnect (LVD) 11.5 V
Low voltage reconnect 12.6 V
High voltage disconnect 15.0 V
Electrical Characteristics
Maximum Solar Voc 30 V
Self-consumption 8.4 mA
5.3 mA
Maximum Voltage Drop 0.345 V
Parallel solar Yes
Parallel load No
Battery Charging
Charge algorithm PWM, constant voltage
4 Stage Charging Bulk, PWM, Boost and Float
Switching Negative leg

So this controller can support up a 24V PV array at 240Watts or 12v array at 120watts. remember we cannot exceed 10AMP. Watts = Amps x Volts

Personally I think this regulators float charge is a bit high as the recommended float voltages are Gel 13.05 V, Flooded 13.4 V and AGM 13.6 V at 25 °C to high a float can lead to overcharging and battery damage or reduced life.

[Sumner]

We have a number of 12 volt panels and I've never seen that high of voltage, but just looked at a couple of their specs and the do list about 21 volts as an open circuit voltage and that is the case here with the switch open so I'm now sure in my mind that is why he is seeing the higher voltage. Learned something new .

I see no need to not have the panel connected to the batteries so have never not had them connected like that. Our 200 watts on the Mac are connected all of the time. I do have a switch that disconnects the controller from the bat and the panel at the same time so I could service it if needed. The Blue Sky tech suggested that and I put it in.

This controller could work with a 24 volt panel but that would be a real waste as it is a PWM controller. To use a 24 volt panel efficiently you would want a MPPT controller. The controller also comes with a jumper in the mode for gel batteries and should be removed if he is using a flooded battery. Maybe that hasn't been done?

Sum

===================================
Our MacGregor 26-S
Our Endeavour 37
Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida
Mac-Venture Links

[Sea Wind]

Thanks for all the replies. This is the link to the panel:
http://www.solarblvd.com/Solar-Panels-& ... _info.html
and regulator:
http://www.solarblvd.com/p191/Morningst ... _info.html

The idea of having the regulator go to the switch is that I can choose which battery to use and charge since I don't have a combiner.

Sea Wind,

Sounds just fine to me. That is exactly what you should be reading in the configurations listed. The 16V climbing to 19V is not a problem and perfectly normal with the switch off. You can leave the panel connected.
Congratulations on a good install.

Ken

Thanks. I will comfirm with solarblvd staff today.

[Sumner]

Looks like the open circuit voltage is a little over 21 volts so you do look to be fine,

Sum

===================================
Our MacGregor 26-S
Our Endeavour 37
Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida
Mac-Venture Links

[Sea Wind]

Looks like the open circuit voltage is a little over 21 volts so you do look to be fine,, sum

Yes, that is what is going on. Just got off the phone with solarblvd, the maximum voltage is 17.2V and that is why I was worried when I saw it climbing to 19V, but it turns out that when I put the switch in the off position it is an open circuit which can go up to 21.6V. Duh!

O dear! I have an electronics degree in component level electronics (for what it's worth) I graduated with a 3.9 GPA over two years and this thread gave me a headache!

A few of you got it right from the begining, but without an electronic degree (or a 3.9 GPA) I was not understanding.
Thanks again to everyone, now I can move on to my next winter project...

[Sumner]

Looks like the open circuit voltage is a little over 21 volts so you do look to be fine,, sum

Yes, that is what is going on. Just got off the phone with solarblvd, the maximum voltage is 17.2V and that is why I was worried when I saw it climbing to 19V, but it turns out that when I put the switch in the off position it is an open circuit which can go up to 21.6V. Duh!

O dear! I have an electronics degree in component level electronics (for what it's worth) I graduated with a 3.9 GPA over two years and this thread gave me a headache!

A few of you got it right from the beginning, but without an electronic degree (or a 3.9 GPA) I was not understanding.
Thanks again to everyone, now I can move on to my next winter project...

Well due to your post I learned something I didn't know before. I'd never paid any attention to a panel's open circuit voltage before only the max voltage that is usually in the 17-18 volts for a 12 volt panel. Now if I encounter this at some point I'll know what is going on. Thanks ,

Sum

===================================
Our MacGregor 26-S
Our Endeavour 37
Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida
Mac-Venture Links