Backstay on the M?

[mtc]

Thinking of adding one. Any thoughts?

[Andy26M]

I can't quite picture how you could add a backstay without hampering or interfering with the mast rotation.

It would be nice to have a backstay for some fine-tuning of mast/sail shape, but I also really like not having one in the way at the stern.

- AndyS

[mtc]

Would like the option of additonal control of the mast and sail shape. Not having one when using a chute. . . well, that's kinda scarey. How strong are those shrouds?

Roataion could be controlled by controlling the backstay tension when tacking.

M

[Andy26M]

I agree with You Yours as far as downwind character - the swept back shrouds should make up for the lack of backstay - if it didn't there would be warnings all over the place that you should not sail with jib/genoa alone, and those are not there - not to mention the fact that they now sell that large asymmetric spinnaker.

I've seen several much larger/heavier boats at boat shows with no backstay. I believe Hunters up to 36' don't have a backstay - this is not some wierd anomaly that MacGregor dreamed up, it is in wide practice.

- AndyS

[mtc]

Thanks, guys. Good things to consider.

[Tom Spohn]

Don't do it. A rig without a backstay allows the use of more roach in the mainsail. A backstay could interfere with that big mainsail on the M.

[udannlin]

I believe Hunters up to 36' don't have a backstay - this is not some wierd anomaly that MacGregor dreamed up, it is in wide practice

I've contemplated the option of a self-installed backstay on an M myself. I know that there are bigger boats without backstays but there are also stay-less boats. However, most of them are keel stepped masts rather than deck stepped on a tabernacle. The standing rigging, mast and spars are pretty anemic as it is when compared to other boats this size. By the M being a tall rig with more sail area, I do worry a little.

After reading the test Captain Mike from Marian Del Rey perform with Roger from his site (scroll down to Day Four: read it here), doesnt sound very extensive and reassuring. Just Roger by himself stamping the seal of approval on the no backstay concept. There is even a warning about not sailing with only the genoa. I guess the bottom line is that as long as there are no instances of mast failure due to the lack of back stay, I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope it happens to someone besides me first.

As for getting better sail shape, I dont think it matters as much going down wind as the bending of the mast is mostly for eliminating the draft in the main while going upwind. Maybe installing an outhaul system on the boom will help more in downwind abilities....

[Tom Spohn]

There is a test of the new 38' Hunter in the latest Practical Sailor. Works fine. Life is good. not to worry.

[udannlin]

There is a test of the new 38' Hunter in the latest Practical Sailor. Works fine. Life is good. not to worry.

I did read that review. In fact it made me think of the Mac. But the Hunter 38 has a Keel Stepped Mast which would make me feel better too.

[Moe]

I think a backstay could be adapted to the M. To clear the roach, it would require a truck similar to that on the X at the masthead.

I'm sure with some thought, someone could come up with a better design, but what I'm thinking would have blocks on both side, with each leg of a split fixed to the upper single cable, rather than sliding through a block or blocks. Each side of the split would have the block and tackle and could be adjusted independently. In fact, they could be used to ensure the mast turned if it hanged.

The downside to this would be that one split would have to be loosened and the other tightened on every tack.

Another thought is that a single non-split cable could be lead to a wide traveler setup mounted behind the helm. This would also rotate the mast and the further outboard it was moved, the tighter the backstay tension.

This is just a couple of ideas. We have a bunch of smart guys here who I'm sure could improve upon them.

--
Moe

[Moe]

I didn't read udannlin's post as saying the Mac needed a keel-stepped mast, rather that most boats without backstays have a stronger mast setup that may less require a backstay.

The M has already departed from the KISS principle with the rotating mast. Some interested in it for its at least theoretical improvement may yet be willing to take a little more complexity for the option of tuning the mast bend.
--
Moe

[udannlin]

thanks Moe, I of course did not suggest the Mac should have a keel stepped mast either for obvious reasons. It was merely an observation that other backstay-less boats often DO have that feature to re-enforce the mast from the forward force of the sails. It all goes back to the initial question about whether or not a backstay on the M is a precaution worth taking.

As to why the Mac excels amongst its competitors, I would say price, mobility and versatility goes wayyyyy ahead of the mast and spar quality.

(why not, I'll go crazy with the styles and colors too. )