Engine related boat buying help please. Should I walk?

[island808]

So, I've been trying to buy an http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/v ... 69#p267669

Yesterday's shake down didn't go well. Talked to the salesman, the techs have found one problem, haven't gotten hold of the owner to approve repair.

The engine was running fine when we left, came back running bad and no water out the Tell-tale.

They found the remnants of the old impeller in the engine. Needs to be fished out obviously. They do NOT have the original broken impeller. I don't know what that means, if the one they removed was thrown away by a tech that didn't recognize the missing pieces were important or if it was in there from previously.

We were out for about 10-15 minutes. No idea how long the water flow was blocked or to what extent. Wasn't peeing when we got back with the engine running rough.

Its' a honda 50 4 stroke carb. Not sure of the particular model, but it looks like the 97-2002 model, which would fit the boat's vintage.
No alarm sounded, but it might not have one, or it might be broken. Engine was hot (to the touch) when we pulled in, but not smoking/steaming or anything.
It did start fine after a short break to change the fuel filter (that's when we noticed the tell-tale not spitting)

I suppose the "fuel problem" we were having could have been the engine trying to seize, or would the engine shut down or "limp home" if it was overheating.

Is that engine toast? Should I walk and hope another comes up for sale? (i'm not buying a boat that I haven't seen. So would have to be local, and might not happen) the boat is in otherwise acceptable condition with a little oxidation. Its a "well loved" 2002. It was used.

Of course all this supposes that the engine does get running. I may offer to buy the boat sans motor if this drags on. Buy a used rebuilt or something if they were ok with that.

Advise for the novice please. The offer is 12k without trailer, with the engine in "ready to go" condition.

[DaveC426913]

My engine stopped peeing for who knows how long. I flushed it, and replaced the impellor and it still overheated - alarm and everything - trying it several times over several days. I eventually popped the thermostat and flushed the engine and the remaining pieces of the shredded impellor came out. Been running fine since then - no further trouble.

So, all I'm sayin' is: it's not impossible to have the engine plugged and overheating from an impellor blockage and still have it work out OK.

[Tomfoolery]

Honda BF50's from that era have an undersized pee hole, tube, and barb fitting in the engine. This is something Honda addressed eventually, and you can get the parts to upsize it. That little nozzle clogs just because it feels like it. I'm not saying that's what happened here, as of course there's no way to know that from where I sit, but it is a very common problem.

The exploded impeller would have me concerned. If bits are stuck in there, some passages may have been blocked for a long time. The audible warning may also not be working.

Someone needs to tear that engine open and see what's in there, including the impeller, unless they just put in a new one (can't remember what you said in the other thread).

That price doesn't sound all that fantastic, by the way, if it doesn't have a trailer. I paid $15k for mine, with full Dowsar enclosure, smooth running BF50, lots a goodies, clean (but old) sails, including jib, genoa, main, and spinnaker, and a lot of small stuff that starts to add up. Oh, and a 2-axle trailer, which needed lights (which I would expect with an old trailer), and brakes (also expected), and tires (ditto again), but it was otherwise in sail-away condition with no real worries about the OB. Yours, I'd be concerned about, unless they get it running smoothly.

[island808]

Well it can be running smoothly and still partly clogged. No idea if that can be proven to be clear without being torn down to the block and each water jacket tested.

Yes, assuming your boat was purchased up in central ny, I would expect quite a difference in price to here. Costal and one of the most affluent and boat happy parts of the country. And final price, given a good engine, would only be a touch over yours, with a brand new aluminum trailer we're talking a hair under 16. I realize it's not a steal, I'm also not a thief, but engine is big ticket.

I'm thinking 8k if the engine is toast or should be chucked.

[opie]

You or the owner need to do the upfit to the larger pee hole as TKanzler suggests. See THIS LINK

In the meantime, for buying purposes, you should take out the indicator fitting in the block with a small rachet driver (3/8" driver is too large, try 1/4", can't remember the size) and check for blockage.

It would be a shame to miss the purchase if this was the only problem.....and could be fixed cheaply yourself...

[island808]

One of the ideas I've had is to knock down price offer and doing it myself. Although I'm not all that outboard savvy, I have completed a couple frame off "restos" on vws and rovers.

Basically I guess I need to know if the engine has a high chance of being junk. I want to get on the water, not elbow deep in oil all summer.

Thanks this forum is great. Hopefully I can pay it forward. I feel like a leech.

[opie]

Island,
I want to update the info on that link above. As described down the link a few messages, I tried a larger hose and ran it outside the engine over the water, but got to thinkin' and maybe there is a reason for a smaller orifice at the bitter end. So I put a restrictor at the end of the hose. I have not had an engine fitting blockage since I made the repair, BUT, I have had to clean out my restrictor (takes place of Honda's water indicator cowling fitting) many times a season with a piece of copper wire I keep very handy. But to do this is a breeze compared to before having to remove the engine cover, etc, etc..... I just stop in idle and lean over the back of the engine and stick the wire in and get a strong hot water stream on my hands for a good reward.
Fair seas......

[dlandersson]

Knocking down the price and doing it yourself - or having it done yourself can be very reasonable. I've passed on some buyers for my beach house who have a list of things they want done. My response is that I can drop the price and THEY can do it - I don't want to spend a chunk of cash and have the buyer say "that isn't what I wanted".

One of the ideas I've had is to knock down price offer and doing it myself. Although I'm not all that outboard savvy, I have completed a couple frame off "restos" on vws and rovers.

Basically I guess I need to know if the engine has a high chance of being junk. I want to get on the water, not elbow deep in oil all summer.

Thanks this forum is great. Hopefully I can pay it forward. I feel like a leech.

[island808]

I hear ya, I just sold a house and eventually, the realtor (sensing my frustration with the buyers) just told me "that's it! Take it or leave it". Then the day after closing they call up demanding a new garage door opener since the remote stopped working. Argh! Turns out it just needed learning after the power had been shut off for a few days.

A bit different. Owner bragged on the engine as being perfect. Broker figured stored without gas in it means it will be as good as when it was stopped. A bit ignorant. I wish at this point I could have a sit down with the owner and see what he was thinking. We could hash it out. Maybe Saturday.

Like I said before, he was offering it as "ready to go, needs nothing" type ad at $16k no trailer

I appreciate the advise. Building different scenarios and offers to be ready. But I don't want to go in ignorant.
Bought a 455 RA V engine once. " running strong when i took it out" found the crank oil ports to be crammed full of plastic and all the journals and crank scored' bearings spun and shot. Quickly over budget. Impeller bits and rough running harken me back to that day. (yes I know the impeller isn't blocking oil ports)

Thanks again!

[dlandersson]

I'd use the lack of trailer and engine problem as talking points to bring the price down.

One thing I did was have a mech inspect (and repair) my engine so that it was "to code". But - I would have taken the same money (plus several hundred extra) and had it done at this end - the seller might be strapped for ready cash.

I hear ya, I just sold a house and eventually, the realtor (sensing my frustration with the buyers) just told me "that's it! Take it or leave it". Then the day after closing they call up demanding a new garage door opener since the remote stopped working. Argh! Turns out it just needed learning after the power had been shut off for a few days.

A bit different. Owner bragged on the engine as being perfect. Broker figured stored without gas in it means it will be as good as when it was stopped. A bit ignorant. I wish at this point I could have a sit down with the owner and see what he was thinking. We could hash it out. Maybe Saturday.

Like I said before, he was offering it as "ready to go, needs nothing" type ad at $16k no trailer

I appreciate the advise. Building different scenarios and offers to be ready. But I don't want to go in ignorant.
Bought a 455 RA V engine once. " running strong when i took it out" found the crank oil ports to be crammed full of plastic and all the journals and crank scored' bearings spun and shot. Quickly over budget. Impeller bits and rough running harken me back to that day. (yes I know the impeller isn't blocking oil ports)

Thanks again!

[Johnacuda]

What part of the country are you from? I waited for about 4 months to find a deal on mine. It was a freshwater 2000 with a smooth BF50 and the stock steel trailer for $12. I am from NY, and just bought it in NJ 13 months ago.

[island808]

I'd use the lack of trailer and engine problem as talking points to bring the price down.

One thing I did was have a mech inspect (and repair) my engine so that it was "to code". But - I would have taken the same money (plus several hundred extra) and had it done at this end - the seller might be strapped for ready cash.

]

Tellin ya, if they had a Honda mechanic look at it and clean/sync carbs and change impeller before trying to start it we'd be done.

[island808]

What part of the country are you from? I waited for about 4 months to find a deal on mine. It was a freshwater 2000 with a smooth BF50 and the stock steel trailer for $12. I am from NY, and just bought it in NJ 13 months ago.

Annapolis/DC.

Yea, this is a trailered brackish boat (no signs of water storage). Trailer Was unsafe so he scrapped it. Single axle anyway. I'll pay extra to not have that Mac trailer liability. Walking around marinas, I saw 3 MacX on trailers, 2 collapsed 1 I wouldn't try to use. Ill pay a bit more for tandem axle aluminum new thanks. Lower weight (barely with the tandem) more trailer, no swaying for me.

I think $12k is a fair price if it was running well. Sure if I waited I could do better. Sooner or later.

Just wrote the broker telling him I'm interested as is for the right price, but want to have it in my posession so I can get to the minor repairs and massive cleaning. Engine, I can fix.. But the season if waning. Maybe a chance to save some money anyway.


I thank you all for your opinions and advise. Can't get enough of that when you're a relative novice. Good people here.

[dlandersson]

And that's another price talking point - the 2013 season is 1/2 over.

I paid approx. $11k for mine (in Feb) - with repairs (include new trailer tires) - everything running fine and TONS of "extras" (4 sails, depth finder, souped up switches, perko, canvas covers).

[dlandersson]

What no one has mentioned is that the newest owner has to buy the pizza.

I thank you all for your opinions and advise. Can't get enough of that when you're a relative novice. Good people here.