Standing Rigging: to crimp or not to crimp

[wescotac]

My last M26 had double crimped swagged ends on all my standing rigging, my (new to me) 1979 venture 25 is also, I am trying to decide which way is least expensive, if there is such a method, I will be replacing all the rigging, running and standing in the coming month , I guess my question is: Do they make a made to order set for these boats?? Or will I be buying a crimping tool and wire, if so does anyone know what wire size is best.
Thanks in advance
BA

[Russ]

I'm no expert on this at all. But I have read others who are and hopefully they will chime in.
I believe crimping is a must. Getting the size right might be the challenge.

Blue Water Yachts (the official Macgregor parts supplier) might have some insight and maybe even premade parts. I bought a new headstay from them premade.

--Russ

[kadet]

DIY is cheapest to crimp you can pick up a hand swage tool for $50 and the swages and thimbles are cheap. You can easily hand swage up to 6mm so this is more than enough for a Mac or most any other trailer sailer.

I prefer pressed swage fitting myself but it is over kill on small boats like these and the hydraulic hand tools required are more expensive $150+ and the forks and ends are more expensive as well. There is an argument that hydraulic swaged ends fail more easily on boats that are rigged and de-rigged a lot and the damage can be hidden from view inside the terminal so should not be used on trailerable boats.

Measuring up is easy again if you have the old rigging for comparison just ensure that one end includes some form of adjustment, i.e chainplate adjusters on shrouds and turnbuckles on fore and back stays.

Original wire sizes are probably best unless you have a special need, 1x19 5/32 for shrouds and 1/8 for forestay for an don't know about a 25. Because I already have the tools I can make a better forestay than the one that came with the boat for less than $50.

The added cost of the tools and the perceived benefit in doing it yourself with be a decision you will have to make, I already had these tools from when I fitted new life lines and cockpit seats so it makes sense to make my own, your milage may vary.

[Catigale]

The small swage tool is cheaper than the jaws of life type, and also fits in your tool box at sea for emergency repairs.

It takes one minute to make a swage vs 5 seconds with the jaw type. I managed to save about 200 bucks of home repair and auto repair within one week of owning it!

[wescotac]

Looks like I'll be making my own, great infomation and in a timely manor thanks, I will keep you updated on my progress and restore of this vessel.
Thanks
BA

[Captain_Kirk]

I have a question I hope the OP doesn't mind me adding.

For my keel cable on my old Venture the old cable I pulled out was in terrible shape, but it used 3 wire rope u-bolt clips: http://imgur.com/2HTkGGb

I bought new cable and hardware and used three new SS wire rope u-bolt clips. Should I try crimping it instead?

[Tomfoolery]

I don't know what's appropriate for that model boat, but major props for calling them by the right name - clips.

A crimped connection is neater than a bunch of clips, but if you use them correctly, and in the right number, they're just as strong.

And remember - never saddle a dead horse.

[kadet]

I have a question I hope the OP doesn't mind me adding.

For my keel cable on my old Venture the old cable I pulled out was in terrible shape, but it used 3 wire rope u-bolt clips: http://imgur.com/2HTkGGb

I bought new cable and hardware and used three new SS wire rope u-bolt clips. Should I try crimping it instead?

They are just a form of mechanical crimping so you can crimp nicopress swages instead. If they are in salt water all the time just get them in a metal that won't react with the stainless wire, i.e. Not Aluminium... use nickel copper or better still stainless nicopress sleeves.

[Captain_Kirk]

I don't know what's appropriate for that model boat, but major props for calling them by the right name - clips.

A crimped connection is neater than a bunch of clips, but if you use them correctly, and in the right number, they're just as strong.

And remember - never saddle a dead horse.

Is there a rule for number of nicropress sleeves to use? I know the clips have a guide that such and such wire diameter should have x amount of overlap and x number of clips, but I'm not seeing anything like that for using a nicropress. Is it just a one and done crimp solution?

EDIT: I was able to find a guide: http://versales.com/ns/nicopress/instruction32.pdf Seems to vary quite a lot depending on multiple factors.

[RobertB]

I just shortened my lifelines yesterday (last step in stern rail seat installation) and here is my conclusion.

All swaged fittings/ends on the boat use two swage sleeves - one is good but two is better
It appears the first one (closest to the end) is the swage that is the primary one. The second one is not only backup but also functions to capture the cut cable end (the end is kept about 1/16 of and inch recessed in the swage sleeve).

[Tomfoolery]

All the instructions I've seen regarding Nicropress fittings tell you to leave a short bit of wire rope exposed beyond the fitting. Since one fitting seems to be all that's required for 'normal' eye terminations, it would stand to reason that a second (backup) oval sleeve could be used to capture the tail to prevent snags. I've done a couple of them where I end up with a bit of gap between the ropes in the space between the oval swage fittings, which has never gone away, suggesting the first, or primary, swage is doing all the work and the second one truly is just holding the tail and covering it for cosmetic and anti-snag purposes.

Of course, in a proper termination, the thimble is taking most of the load via friction, so the swage isn't doing that much, but according to the web site linked above, you can use two swages for an in-line splice. I'm not sure I'd trust it with that style of fitting, but that's what they show. The raw wire rope is cheap enough that if I needed it longer, I'd just buy a new length and keep the old one for other uses.