Replacement Hardware for Swing Keel

[kbata_v22]

Back in 1986 I bought a 1971 Venture 22. Back then all I had to do to get it ready for sailing was to strip out the inside and replace rotted wood, get dust off the winch, and paint the bottom. The boat had been sitting on the trailer sinking in the mud in the back yard for the last 25 years. I had a chance to get a bigger boat, cal 27, in good working condition but needed to get rid of the old boat first. Now that that opportunity has past I've been trying to revive the old boat. This time around in addition to redoing the interior I've had to refurbish the trailer, replace all the electrical and the winch, repair the rudder, and of course repair the dreaded swing keel. As most owners of older MacGregors know this is not an easy task. At this point I have ripped all the old cracked fiberglass off, removed the rust from the iron slabs that make up it's core, painted this with a special paint, and built it back up with lot's of fiberglass and epoxy. I was able to get a new stainless steel bolt to replace the swing bolt but I do have some questions about the setup.
1. Is there anything special about the bolt that would give it extra strength or is a ss bolt of the same size from West Marine sufficient?
2. What is the detail on the parts to connect the new cable to the keel.
3. My boat had the spot where the bolt to lock the keel in the down position sealed with caulk. In Barnegat Bay waves were never an issue so I never worked about keeping the keel locked. I plan on using the boat in Lake Champlain where it can get rough with the right wind. Should I get a bolt for this also? Are there any special considerations aside from the bolts size?
4. Does anyone know of a good source for getting these parts?
Thanks. Sorry for the long post.

[bobbieaw]

Sounds Like your well on the way!

The easiest source for your keel bolt is Blue Water Yachts! They have a complete kit for around $25 or so as I recall. I almost went that way, but my rubber washers and conical washers were fine, so I bought a 5/8" stainless bolt from a bolt a hardware supplier on-line. Saved a few bucks.....

The keel hold down bolt is just a stainless bolt, best if you have the boat in the water close to a hardware store and just figure out what fits "after" you rehang the keel on your new 5/8 bolt. Keep in mind, your keel may be a bit moved after reinstall. The hold down bolt should only be used when you are sure the water is deep enough. I just reworked my keel but I had the solid cast iron one. Off to the local body shop for a sandblast then epoxy coating with barrier coat additive. This is the second time I've done this...on two different boats.

New cable has an eye with a bolt thru it then thru keel with the cast iron keel. Simple and easy....

I pulled my keel for fear that the keel bolt would be worn. After pulling the keel, the bolt showed no wear at all, but since it was out I used a new one when I put it back in. Sailed all summer at the keel still looks great, now I just need to work on everything else:-) Enjoy your classic Mac...Scott

[radsail]

I just purchased a Mac/Venture 25 and have had a lot of questions about the swing keel. I haven't had it in the water yet. This is my first non-fixed keel boat and I'm wondering if the keel bolt fit allows the keel to clunk in the trunk while underway. I called Blue water and the rep said the keel should have some play in it, but how much is normal? Does the keel bump around inside the pocket while sailing? Does the hold down bolt help stabilize the keel in the down position? Do the seals around the bolts ever leak?

Thanks!

[bobbieaw]

Hello and congratulations on the Mac 25 purchase!

The time between my last Mac (Venture 23) and my current one was about 15 years or so. In both cases, the keel "moved" a bit in the trunk and yes the keel hold down bolt stabilizes some of the movement (keel only moves side to side....not forward and back as well). During my most recent removal (I had a fear of a failing bolt dropping the keel) the bolt was fine. The hole thru the keel was very worn and if you look around on this site, most folks install a "bushing" before they reinstall the keel.

I went a different route of using epoxy with graphite additive and actually epoxied my new bolt coated in wax in the keel while it was out. Then I twisted it loose (epoxy doesn't like wax) and continued to build up my epoxy on both sides of the keel. After one season, my keel has remained very stable in the trunk with the new "epoxy bushing". I'm not sure it will last forever, but I know the keel "bolt" is brand new

The keel bolt AND the hold down bolt holes are in theory "above" the water line. Water can get in the hold-down bolt holes if no bolt is installed by splashing up. In the harbor on a calm day...no water. Heeled over 30 degrees hopping 4 foot waves....splashing water. I even have water splash up the "tube" where the keel cable passes. My wife fixed the problem at the tube by stuffing a small piece of sponge she torn off my larger sponge used to collect water in my boat. A small amount of water does come thru the keel bolt area, but it is hard to tell if all the water collected over a sail comes from these bolts or from the topside which is underwater a bit in 4 foot waves

If you have massive water coming in while sitting in calm water, look toward any thru hulls you have. Again the bolts are in theory "above" the waterline. If you have massive water coming in around your keel bolt, you could have excessive wear of the epoxy and glass area the bolt goes thru (in your keel trunk) in which case you could drill and use a larger bolt.

Enjoy the new Mac.....Scott

[radsail]

Thanks for the info! Your keel repair sounds interesting. I'm wondering if using carbon fiber will cause electrolysis issues Carbon fiber is very electrically active and special precautions are used with carbon fiber where metal fasteners are used in aerospace applications. I'm sure your bolts are stainless steel. Is your keel sealed in epoxy?
I'm contemplating adding an adjustable support on my trailer to add support to the keel while moving the boat. I noticed the keel is just hanging by its pivot bolt and retracting wire and I have to believe it's hard on the boat.
Looking forward to more great information from this forum!

Fair winds!
Radsail

[kbata_v22]

I was thinking of trying to use some Kevlar to mix with epoxy to finish the holes. I coated the keel with por-15 before adding all the epoxy and fiberglass to try to prevent it from getting rusty again. I added some Kevlar, especially to the leading edge and bottom to try to protect it in case I hit something. I still have some scraps left. This weekend I made a frame to hold the keel after I lower it so I can drag it into position to go back in. For some reason my wife doesn't like to see it hanging from the porch roof!

[bobbieaw]

... Is your keel sealed in epoxy?.

In my year Mac 21, the keel is solid cast iron. On my fresh water boat, this left a small amount of rust visible where the paint had been rubbed off over the years. My thought on the fix, was to sandblast clean at local body shop, then coat with epoxy (Raka) and West System barrier coat additive. Two coats each side and two additional coats on lower edge once installed. This was something I had done to a "fixed keel" boat in the past and it worked for 8 years or so until I sold the boat.

The graphite powder just around the new keel bolt was a fix to another boat in the past to get rid of "slop" in the tiller. The autopilot couldn't deal with the extra movement, so someone suggested I remove the tiller, wax the internal shaft ALOT then reinstall and inject epoxy with graphite powder added around the shaft. When it dried, the rudder didn't move at all until I gave it a tackle dummy block with my shoulder. The rudder shaft broke free and all slop was removed. The autopilot worked until I sold the boat

Cost for epoxy coat to keel was in the $150 range...bolt was $8 delivered to my door. Wood used to make large sawhorses to support boat and large overhead 6X4 beam to lift boat off trailer was another $100 or so. All to check a bolt which in the end was fine, but once I had the keel out, I had it sandblasted ($100) and coated it before I reinstalled. Used extra epoxy on this job http://www.macgregorsailors.com/modt/in ... ?view=1907 where you can see barrier coat additive on new lower rudder section. I still have epoxy left....

On my trailer, the keel sets in a small "V" mounted to hold the keel. My other Venture 23 also had this on the trailer. Your trailer could be a replacement added over the years??? Enjoy your classic Mac...Scott