Anchor rode , with heavy chain

[Three Gypsies]

On my anchor rode , I have 30 feet of light chain . Its either 1/4 or 5/16 chain .
In my storage room full of leftovers from previous boats , I ran across 8 feet of heavy , plastic coated chain I used to use on our last boat . This chain is probably 3/8 or more and heavy .

I am thinking about placing it between my light chain and the rope . I have read other places this acts like a shock absorber for the anchor and also keeps the angle low to the bottom , increasing the anchors bite .

Has anyone done this ? How did it work ?
Or should I put the heavy chain next to the anchor ?

My present system has worked well , but I am always looking for improvement .

[Kittiwake]

.... Or should I put the heavy chain next to the anchor ? .....

I believe conventional logic would indeed be to put the heavy chain between the light chain and the rope: this would essentially be a variant of the old technique of putting a lead weight between the rope and the chain in order to keep the overall angle of pull on the anchor as parallel to the bottom as possible.
I chuckled when in a previous post I mentioned that Kittiwake uses 30' of heavy chain with a Bruce-type anchor, and one of the guys responded that with 30' of heavy chain you could just use a rock as your anchor ... his point being well taken of course - that if you can keep the pull on your anchor parallel to the seabed your anchor should bite much better.

[Russ]

You may get other opinions, but I would have the heaviest segment low to the bottom, therefore closest to the anchor.

Anchors need a big angle and one of the purposes of the chain is to keep the pulling action as horizontal as possible. The shank, when pulled up vertically will pull the anchor out of the bottom. Therefore, keeping it horizontal will keep the blades dug in.

The chain server 2 purposes.
1) Prevent chafe of the rode on rocks and things on the bottom.
2) Keep the angle of the pull on the shank horizontal

Typically, most of the chain will lay on the bottom. When the boat pulls on it, the chain will be lifted off the bottom and act as a shock absorber when the boat lifts it up. With 30' of chain, I doubt your rode will ever get off the bottom. Most of that chain will be laying on the floor.





One mistake I made that was almost catastrophic was not wiring the shackle. I was about to drop the anchor when I noticed the shackle had come undone. Vibration from trailering, I don't know, but the pin vibrated out. So it's very important to both screw them in tight with pliers and wire it shut for safety.

--Russ

[Boblee]

Personally I would put the heavy chain between the rope and the light chain firstly because it will hold the light chain closer to the bottom and then the anchor is also held closer to the bottom a bit like getting more leverage on a long spanner.
The second reason would be that the heavier chain would be onboard (in many cases) by the time the weight of the anchor is felt rather than trying to lift heavier chain and anchor together as well as whats left of the light chain.
We use 18' of 3/8 chain and that can be heavy even after the anchor breaks free, it's always a relief to see the first bit of chain break the surface and even after a rest, more when the second anchors chain breaks the surface but then I certainly am weaker at 67 than 60.
In my anchor locker I made a small marine carpeted sleeve or pocket to hold a "forked"? tool I made out of stainless for tightening the D shackles, also have one in the dinghy for the anchors there, once caught twice shy, still remind one of the grandsons of the day he used the anchor rope in the dinghy as a painter and I threw the anchor over never to be seen again.
Thats a terrible feeling watching the last bit of chain going over with no line attached

[Three Gypsies]

Personally I would put the heavy chain between the rope and the light chain firstly because it will hold the light chain closer to the bottom and then the anchor is also held closer to the bottom a bit like getting more leverage on a long spanner.
The second reason would be that the heavier chain would be onboard (in many cases) by the time the weight of the anchor is felt rather than trying to lift heavier chain and anchor together as well as whats left of the light chain.
We use 18' of 3/8 chain and that can be heavy even after the anchor breaks free, it's always a relief to see the first bit of chain break the surface and even after a rest, more when the second anchors chain breaks the surface but then I certainly am weaker at 67 than 60.
In my anchor locker I made a small marine carpeted sleeve or pocket to hold a "forked"? tool I made out of stainless for tightening the D shackles, also have one in the dinghy for the anchors there, once caught twice shy, still remind one of the grandsons of the day he used the anchor rope in the dinghy as a painter and I threw the anchor over never to be seen again.
Thats a terrible feeling watching the last bit of chain going over with no line attached

That's probably the best reason to put it between the rope and light chain , so as to get it that weight on board before lifting the anchor . I too, struggle to get my anchor line on board , as it is .

[Boblee]

On those occasions when the anchor has a good hold and if only coupled to the light chain it would be easier too by not being as heavy to maneuver and pull.
I like the idea so much I might even put a length of light chain next to my anchor myself, maybe cut one of my heavier chains in half and put 2 x 6m lighter chains to the anchors.

[DaveB]

Without a windless, you are better off with the 30 ft. of proof coil 1/4 chain. In heavy conditions just lower a 5 lb. bar bell at top of chain were it is connected to your nylon rode fastner.
This is much eaiser to pull up and will give much better holding than heavier chain.
The effects are, as the wind and waves pull back the boat, it lifts the barbell first ever so slow to take in shock and by the time it goes to anchor...there is little or no effect on holding.
Heavy weight chain at anchor has very little effect, it's the shock you need to absorb, this is done with 30 ft. chain and the barbell.
Just one more thing. Our boats will never break a link on 1/4 proof coil chain! If you are indoubt, use 1/4 BBB chain were every link is tested. No Need.
Proof Coil is tested every 7th link.
Don't give me the a chain is only good till it's weakest link.
Hard enough to haul a 13lb anchor with 30 ft. 1/4 proof coil chain.( and a 5lb barbell)
My girlfriend hauls the anchor and I at the Helm knows her pain.

Dave

On my anchor rode , I have 30 feet of light chain . Its either 1/4 or 5/16 chain .
In my storage room full of leftovers from previous boats , I ran across 8 feet of heavy , plastic coated chain I used to use on our last boat . This chain is probably 3/8 or more and heavy .

I am thinking about placing it between my light chain and the rope . I have read other places this acts like a shock absorber for the anchor and also keeps the angle low to the bottom , increasing the anchors bite .

Has anyone done this ? How did it work ?
Or should I put the heavy chain next to the anchor ?

My present system has worked well , but I am always looking for improvement .

[Three Gypsies]

Without a windless, you are better off with the 30 ft. of proof coil 1/4 chain. In heavy conditions just lower a 5 lb. bar bell at top of chain were it is connected to your nylon rode fastner.
This is much eaiser to pull up and will give much better holding than heavier chain.
The effects are, as the wind and waves pull back the boat, it lifts the barbell first ever so slow to take in shock and by the time it goes to anchor...there is little or no effect on holding.
Heavy weight chain at anchor has very little effect, it's the shock you need to absorb, this is done with 30 ft. chain and the barbell.
Just one more thing. Our boats will never break a link on 1/4 proof coil chain! If you are indoubt, use 1/4 BBB chain were every link is tested. No Need.
Proof Coil is tested every 7th link.
Don't give me the a chain is only good till it's weakest link.
Hard enough to haul a 13lb anchor with 30 ft. 1/4 proof coil chain.( and a 5lb barbell)
My girlfriend hauls the anchor and I at the Helm knows her pain.

Dave

On my anchor rode , I have 30 feet of light chain . Its either 1/4 or 5/16 chain .
In my storage room full of leftovers from previous boats , I ran across 8 feet of heavy , plastic coated chain I used to use on our last boat . This chain is probably 3/8 or more and heavy .

I am thinking about placing it between my light chain and the rope . I have read other places this acts like a shock absorber for the anchor and also keeps the angle low to the bottom , increasing the anchors bite .

Has anyone done this ? How did it work ?
Or should I put the heavy chain next to the anchor ?

My present system has worked well , but I am always looking for improvement .

The more chain the better hold . It not only adds weight , it also add shock absorption as its lifted and stretched out . The rope part adds absorption as well as it stretches .
You are right 1/4 chain would never break . We could lift our boats by this size chain .

[Seapup]

Heavy weight chain at anchor has very little effect

I have a backwards setup on my stern danforth, heavy chain at the anchor, light chain to the rode. Has seemed to help set the stern anchor easier when using bahamian moor. Once I get it set I have no worries about it pulling loose, but have had trouble digging in on fast current areas where everything is scoured away except shell. I wanted the extra weight at the anchor to help dig it in. I also sharpened the points and edges of the danforth with an angle grinder.

I ordered 50' of 3/8 BB when I ordered my 22lb delta. Thought I read those sizes went together somewhere...Didn't realize 50' of 3/8 is about 85lbs I couldn't get the 22lb delta with 50' of chain to set reliably (eventually gave up on it) and someone told me I had too much chain and delta only recommends a short piece. So I lopped off 10' and tried just that but was no improvement. Then took that 17lb 10' chunk of 3/8 and put it between my 1/4 chain and stern anchor.


Personally I don't find the weight of the chain to be an issue when raising the anchor, its easier on the hands than the rode. I still have about 65lb of the 3/8" left on the bow anchor. I have a roller so I brace my feet against the pulpit and pull straight back, its not a lifting motion at all. The only time the chain has been an issue is if I am in shallow and want to move the anchor/boat as the tide drys out. It is about impossible to drag all that chain and is easier to pull it all back onboard, walk the boat, and start over.

I have a 15lb? rubber coated mushroom anchor that came with the boat and have sent it down the rode to the chain using a caribbeaner a few times. For some reason that seems to be a much larger PITA to raise than a heavier chain, but is probably more effective as its at one point at the top of the chain vs spread out.

On a somewhat similar note was at a large new west marine store the other day and they had a whole row of anchors with delta, danforth, fortress, claw, supreme, rocna, and boss anchors. The electronics guy I had been talking to found me with all of them in the mid twenty pound range spread out all over the floor. I was amazed to see in person the design differences side by side. The 15lb boss was probably at least twice the size of a 33lb claw. The boss was much thinner and sharper than the supreme and the weight is spread out into a larger shovel area. The guy pointed out the new ones are designed thin and concave like a shovel to cut in, the plow is exactly the opposite. I thought of using a 5' shovel to dig a hole and it made sense to me. I wish they had a mantus to look at in person, I am thinking that may be my next investment.

[DaveB]

BBB 3/8 is tested every link, it also have smaller links than Proof Coil. I had 300 ft. of 3/8 BBB chain on my 15,000 lb 35fter on my 3 year cruise from Cape Cod thru S. America and that was over kill. You could take a 100 ft. crain and lift 8 Mac. X's in one pull held with the chain if the boom could reach that high over 200 ft.
Way over kill but a short 12 ft. of it is more than enough for for any anchor. My Fortress 11 weighs 11 lbs and is a storm anchor for my boat. All depends of holding ground in your area. Good to have a Delta Plow and a Danforth to cover most areas aboard.
Dave

[Three Gypsies]

Yesterday , I installed the heavy chain between rope and light chain , I think this will work best for me .

We only dragged a few times in our 3,000 mile cruise , once in Crystal river when the anchor got balled up in grass and mud , then in the Keys on their concrete bottom . But two times is to much , and could be disastrous .

I also noticed that I have some rust in the light chain and this is a worry . I am thinking about weaving some galvanized wire rope in the chain as a safety back up , in case the chain gave way to the rust . Its not likely , but in the middle of the night , I look for things to worry about .

[DaveB]

Most of the Carribean and the keys have about 6 inches of sand over coral rock. Longer chain length are need for these areas as the chain in sand prevents drag.
I would have a extra 50 ft. of chain or a 5lb lead weight at the Nylon rode to chain.
Most will prefer 30 ft. of proof coil 1/4 with a 5lb bell .
It will keep chain at bottom and much more effective in drag. This also acts as a shock cord with waves.
surface rust on chain has nothing to do with original strength, cosmetic.
Dave

Yesterday , I installed the heavy chain between rope and light chain , I think this will work best for me .

We only dragged a few times in our 3,000 mile cruise , once in Crystal river when the anchor got balled up in grass and mud , then in the Keys on their concrete bottom . But two times is to much , and could be disastrous .

I also noticed that I have some rust in the light chain and this is a worry . I am thinking about weaving some galvanized wire rope in the chain as a safety back up , in case the chain gave way to the rust . Its not likely , but in the middle of the night , I look for things to worry about .

[Ixneigh]

I havnt had any problems with the delta not setting, even with 3/8 chain. I have 70 feet of 1/4 inch hightest on my 22, and it seems to set fine. I have pulled concave type anchors right out of our grassy bottom in the keys, and will nrver use them again. I had a rocna that I used for a month, then sold it.
Ix

[Boblee]

I havnt had any problems with the delta not setting, even with 3/8 chain. I have 70 feet of 1/4 inch hightest on my 22, and it seems to set fine. I have pulled concave type anchors right out of our grassy bottom in the keys, and will nrver use them again. I had a rocna that I used for a month, then sold it.
Ix

That really surprises me about the Rocna, the Sarca has dragged for various reasons but would have thought the Rocna would be better and is over the whole variety of bottoms but the sarca with it's ability to pull from the rear is better when it gets stuck eg in rocks or after a heavy night when it burrows down deep, you can pull the Rocna back but with a seperate rope.
Grassy bottoms can be a problem for any anchor but by the nature that causes grass to grow means they usually are on a soft or muddy bottom but getting to it can be a problem and many areas here it is forbidden to anchor there due to the damage caused.
I did have problems early on with the Sarca not in pulling out but worrying about it but setting the anchor correctly fixed that and I think the rocna is superior in that situation of soft grassy bottoms.
On our first Whitsunday trip there weren't two anchors the same and was really surprised how the Sarca compared in relation to quick setting with the plough type being the worst, pretty sure it was a delta that was closest but easy to drag still on sand if not in the right position.
I certainly will continue to use the Sarca or Rocna, as for the complete and unpredictable range of bottom types we encounter IMHO these modern anchors are quicker to set and stronger holding.
A biased view maybe here http://www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-ancho ... nchors.php but valuable
Back to the OP I think you must have chain and a substantial length/weight to pull the anchor point down but if incorrectly set ie around the anchor you will drag (more likely with light chain?), the biggest fault is many just drop the anchor and chain especially with the modern anchors which they think will sort itself out and mostly it will compared to old anchors but not always when you really need it.
Except for the dinghy I do not and never will again own a Danforth type anchor IMHO all they may be good for is for holding in beach sand when beaching as a rear anchor, definitely not to be trusted.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

I havnt had any problems with the delta not setting, even with 3/8 chain. I have 70 feet of 1/4 inch hightest on my 22, and it seems to set fine. I have pulled concave type anchors right out of our grassy bottom in the keys, and will nrver use them again. I had a rocna that I used for a month, then sold it.
Ix

Hi Ian,

Why do you suppose a convex plow works better than a concave plow down in the keys? According to the tests I've seen, the Rocna is supposed to outperform the Delta.

Dimitri