Mold and flooring question

[Doug W]

Last year, I did a proof of concept 'wood' floor that was 1/4" oak lunan as the base and vinyl wood floor strips on top. We really loved the look of the floor. With our humidity, heat and all the vinyl peeled up. So I bought some good oak flooring to do it right.

I had noticed a smell in the boat the last month of the last season and when I pulled out the lunan/vinyl flooring to replace it this year--I found a large area of black mold.

I've cleaned the boat out but am now concerned with putting wood in again. It looks so much better than the carpet. Has anyone else had this problem? If so, how did you prevent it?

Thanks in advance for any input!
Doug & Angie

[yukonbob]

A few years ago we put 3/4" oak floating floor down, and sealed the top and bottom. Even being sealed it started to swell (evenly mind you) and eventually wouldn't fit anymore so I scrapped it. Last year we had click in black vinyl squares that are open and let the area breath, however it is very hard on the feet. This year I intend to try out Armstrong's luxe vinyl plank flooring. I is a floating floor so you can still lift if up as one sheet and clean under it, it is 100% water proof so no swelling, and it looks pretty good. I may add additional adhesive to the strips so they stay together a little better.

[Azzarac]

Hey Doug. It's been my experience that while oak looks and wears great in your home, it's not a great choice for boats. While it is a hard wood, it is very porous and absorbs water well even when sealed. If you must have a real wood sole I would recommend a hard wood with high oil content. There is of course Teak (cost prohibitive), but you could also use cherry, hickory, mahogany, eucalyptus or walnut. If I could find a kiln nearby I would love to build a cockpit sole out of our good old Missouri Osage Orange. That stuff last forever and looks pretty good once finished. For our cabin we went with a vinyl plank from home depot. One box covers the entire sole and looks pretty decent. http://svchameleon.weebly.com/cabin-sol ... hions.html

Fair Winds,
Capt. Azzarac
Chameleon
Follow Chameleon's travels at: http://svchameleon.weebly.com/

[RobertB]

Look up previous threads on this. I have been a big proponent of the Lonseal vinyl flooring from Defender. Looks great, non-skid, easy to clean, and installs with carpet tape.

On the other hand, I just installed about 500 sq ft of bamboo flooring in my house - this could work well, very stable, but why add the weight?

[Russ]

Interesting topic.

I just had a long conversation with a hardwood installer. His point with regard to wood flooring is the humidity is very important. Too much/little and the wood gets mad. On boats, we can expect a lot of moisture. I guess this is why teak and other oily woods perform so well.

We talked about bamboo (for the house). The admiral likes bamboo. He said the stuff is tricky to work with. He essentially talked me out of it. Now I don't remember why.

--Russ

[RobertB]

Do not understand why bamboo is described as tricky - except ignorance (one retailer said the same thing one day, and the next week told me it was the best product - figure).
Bamboo is a manufactured product using stranded bamboo, resin, heat, and pressure. Hardness is in the range of South American hardwoods. Stability is off the charts (the resin makes it so). Can sand and finish like wood. It does dull cutting tools (installers would not like this) - Fein tool blades dull quickly and I will be replacing my chop saw blade soon (a band saw is great for trimming). It also requires a lighter gauge flooring nailer (18 gauge). Hand nailing requires first drilling a hole for the nail. On the other hand, the product is very uniform, only had one defective board in 450 sq feet so far. Waste rate is extremely low. Last tool I would recommend is a power plane for fitting boards on long runs. Other great attribute - it is relatively inexpensive at less than $4 sq ft.

[Kittiwake]

I am surprised that people are surprised ... at mildew problems when you superimpose a solid surface on top of a waterproof cabin sole.
As RussMT says, "On boats, we can expect a lot of moisture." When you just have a thin, easily-removable, breathable, washable layer of carpeting, there is no problem; as Roger discovered through decades of experimentation. But when you replace this carpeting with something that traps moisture beneath it (from condensation and spills), it is easier to get moisture in than out ... so you get persistent dampness and mildew. Sailors long ago found a traditional solution in a fiberglass hull was to use a loose latticework of wood strips, suspended off the waterproof floor so that water could evaporate. In a boat designed to be light and care-free, I'd stick with the carpet.

[Doug W]

In a boat designed to be light and care-free, I'd stick with the carpet.

That's where I was leaning towards. My wife detested the carpets and loved the wood look. I believe that I have her talked into going back to the carpets for at least the next season.

Thanks for the input everyone!

Doug

[Kittiwake]

Your mildew observation is a darn good safety-tip though Doug: makes me determined that, when it is time to replace the carpeting in Kittiwake, I will carefully select a carpet that looks breathable (ie. rather than say rubber-backed). I gather also that builders discovered it is best to use a synthetic carpet rather than say jute-backed for concrete basement floors to avoid a musty smell.

[seahouse]

Or you could put a piece of waffle or dimple membrane underneath it to allow air circulation. This one was specified when I built my house...

http://www.cosella-dorken.com/bvf-ca-en ... cts/ms.php

… it's brown, and not as attractive in visible locations (like my anchor locker, etc) as this one...

http://superseal.ca/dimpledmembrane.html…

which is black; depending on what you have available to you.

At some house construction sites you might score some scrap pieces for free if you're there at the right time (NOT a coincidence) when they're finishing up – that's how I got my black pieces.

I also have cut triangles of this over top of the V-berth cushions, they protect the fabric from abrasion, dirt and water and pointy stuff, and allow air to circulate, especially important during storage season.

- Brian.

[seahouse]

There are purpose-made products for use on (unheated) concrete floors in basements too, Kittiwake. They are a sandwich of the above mentioned product and subfloor, which allows separation from floor moisture and air circulation at the same time. Then you can put whatever flooring you want on top of it.

Also can be sealed and vented for areas where radon has been detected in higher concentrations; they're an ideal solution for that.

[yukonbob]

Do not understand why bamboo is described as tricky - except ignorance (one retailer said the same thing one day, and the next week told me it was the best product - figure).
Bamboo is a manufactured product using stranded bamboo, resin, heat, and pressure. Hardness is in the range of South American hardwoods. Stability is off the charts (the resin makes it so). Can sand and finish like wood. It does dull cutting tools (installers would not like this) - Fein tool blades dull quickly and I will be replacing my chop saw blade soon (a band saw is great for trimming). It also requires a lighter gauge flooring nailer (18 gauge). Hand nailing requires first drilling a hole for the nail. On the other hand, the product is very uniform, only had one defective board in 450 sq feet so far. Waste rate is extremely low. Last tool I would recommend is a power plane for fitting boards on long runs. Other great attribute - it is relatively inexpensive at less than $4 sq ft.

I've laid hundreds of thousands of square feet of hardwood including bamboo. Love the stuff. Harder than oak ash and about the same cost. Most installers don't like it cause they usually require cleats compared to staples. It is also very very important to control your air pressure. Because most bamboo flooring fibres are long and laid the length of the board it has a tendency to expand when cleats are driven too deep. I've seen too many of these floors when the sun hits it, looks like it has a bad case the lumps.

[Wayne nicol]

so bobert, whats the health concerns with the formaldehyde glues used to make the boo flooring??
i really want to do a bamboo galley top??
what can i use, and where do you recommend i get it??
i have seen those bamboo 4x8 sheets????

i thought of using some bamboo flooring, and glueing it all together, using sash clamps, and thus creating a board for the galley top!

[yukonbob]

so bobert, whats the health concerns with the formaldehyde glues used to make the boo flooring??
i really want to do a bamboo galley top??
what can i use, and where do you recommend i get it??
i have seen those bamboo 4x8 sheets????

i thought of using some bamboo flooring, and glueing it all together, using sash clamps, and thus creating a board for the galley top!

Bamboo has been touted as 'green' so I'd check with different manufacturers for the use of formaldehyde then go for what you feel comfortable with. My only personal concern with a finished bamboo top (ie if you used a pre-finihsed t&g) would be hot surfaces in contact with it, or burning it.

i also can't speak for people further south, but I'd imagine you're in about the same boat Wayne; in that keeping the boat a comfortable temperature in 4'c water creates an enormous amount of condensation. Our carpet was done in a month. Even tried without floor (just bare glass) still got condensation. The oak I previously installed lasted two years and cost $40 so i my mind it was a win, and looked great. I did find that it wasn't the floor that was moulding, but rather, dust and debris that made its way under the floor,and with two dogs on board it accumulates by the second, and thats why I'll be trying the luxe vinyl plank. We usually spend two hours a month pulling the flooring (easily removable is key here) and washing down the floors and the bilge…keeps the funk down.

[Seapup]

That's where I was leaning towards. My wife detested the carpets and loved the wood look. I believe that I have her talked into going back to the carpets for at least the next season.

Thanks for the input everyone!

Doug

I give one more vote for carpet. I did a vinyl/wood/laminate thing my first season and it looked beautiful, but ended up a pain and a mess. The same basic indoor/outdoor carpet you get from the home stores to do trailer bunks has worked well for me. Only costs a few bucks and cut a new set whenever it starts looking worn. Easy to shake off all the sand outside and hose it and let it sit in the sun if you want a better clean.