Canadian radio station license

[geminiI-Can]

I appeal to the wisdom of the group to settle this issue. According to the Canadian Power Squadron as stated in the June issue of Pacific Yachting Magazine "A radio station is not required for Canadian boaters in Canadian waters...however, you will need a Radio Station License if you plan to cruise into other countries."
I have talked to US coast guard and even the FCC in Washington and they claim no knowledge of this requirement. I did get a reply from Industry Canada that said it is a Canadian Requirement to have a station license in US waters (but not Canadian waters). So if US officials have no knowledge of this and the Canadian officials only require a station license in waters they have no jurisdiction over, what is the real story? Has anybody ever heard of a Canadian boat being stopped in US waters and checked for a radio station license?
Rick

[Tomfoolery]

I believe the FCC requires the same thing for US boaters in US waters (no station license required) and in Canadian and other international waters (station license required).

[Hamin' X]

It is the same for aircraft. License not required for US registered aircraft, unless flying in other than US airspace. My understanding from talking with Canadian pilots is that it works the same way for them in the US

~Rich

[Kevin]

http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index. ... p_stations

For the FCC requirements for pleasure craft.
http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index. ... p_stations

[yukonbob]

I remember running into this as well some years ago. I spoke with some official somewhere and only thing I could find for sure was if you're operating a marine VHF base station on land you are required to have a station license. Technically this includes using your VHF while the boat is on the trailer. Big No No apparently.

Canadian law exempt the requirement to have a station license in Canadian waters but requires one outside Canadian waters. However US law also exempts Canadian vessels from having one as well. If you go from Canada to say Mexico, you'd have to check Mexican laws.

This does not exempt any Canadians captains operating in Canadian waters from having their Radio Operators Certificate which is required to operate on any maritime/aeronautical bands and all other open frequencies.

*This is assumed to apply only to pleasure craft operators and not commercial vessels.

[geminiI-Can]

I am glad to see that I am not the only one to have been baffled by this.

Kevin, I see from the links you posted that the US requirements seem to be as messed up as the Canadian ones. I have read in the Canadian regulations that US pleasure craft do not need a station license in Canadian waters unless they are here for an extended stay (45 days, I think) after which they would need the station license.

YukonBob, I agree with your statements except " However US law also exempts Canadian vessels from having one as well.", I am not sure the US has Officially exempted Canadian Vessels. I think they are just ignoring it. There is a story put out by the Power Squadron that an agreement to exempt both countries from required station licenses was in the works prior to 9/11 but was never ratified and hasn't been reopened since.

I guess both countries require their pleasure craft to have station licenses only when they leave their country. I am not sure why or who would enforce the requirement. Which gets me back to the question of has anybody ever been checked for a station license?

[seahouse]

I've run into this ambiguity at least twice in courses now, and can't remember what the answer was.

Bob- BTW- the two radio licenses (maritime/aeronautical) used to be combined in Canada. I found out that now two separate licenses are needed.
- B.

[mastreb]

Whose job is it to enforce this, and what are they going to do when they find you not in compliance?

Much ado about nothing.

[yukonbob]

I've run into this ambiguity at least twice in courses now, and can't remember what the answer was.

Bob- BTW- the two radio licenses (maritime/aeronautical) used to be combined in Canada. I found out that now two separate licenses are needed.
- B.

Yup they are. Have my Restricted aeronautical from some work I did years ago..good for both according to Transport Canada
Dam politicians making promises they don't keep. I guess we all just keep on keeping on and hope we don't catch a USCG on a bad day or would it be the FCC? Out in boats patrolling for VHF licenses wouldn't put it past them.

I have however heard of the USCG enforcing it up here once when a couple of rowdy power boaters were out fishing and using ch16 to chat and make fun of each other (there were definitely a few beer involved in this story) after a bunch of profanities were exchanges a separate concerned boat suggested they use another channel, but by that time it was already to late the the CG was in transit, boarded them and gave them a thoroughly deserved rubber glove inspection including bringing their inability to use the VHF. I'd say as long as you're not abusing it no ones going to bother you to much.

[Whipsyjac]

OK Bob and Brian Quiz time:

Does a government assigned call sign ie Station License have a country code? I believe the international format for aircraft contains a country identifier...

I do see some logic here, the Gov't assigned call sign links a voice on a Radio to a certain nation which in turn records who owns that radio. The application even has vessel information. This can all help identify who is making a distress call or violating radio laws. It is probably out of courtesy or international convention that just as we fly our countries flag we identify ourselves with our callsign over the radio.

I can see MMSI's slowly replacing this but reciting a long string of numbers over the radio isn't as practical as a short call sign. If a Canadian boater placed a distress call or other call with their callsign the USCG could contact the Canadian authorities on your behalf. They could provide the USCG with additional vessel information, your MMSI etc that might help with locating you, as well as the ability to let those at home know you need help.

In our radio course we learned a lot about `convention` and it is probably simply international `convention` that foreign vessels use a call sign to identify themselves over radio. In this day and age the government doesn`t do anything for free and keeping track of vessels and call signs is not essential so you pay. Also if they were lifetime licenses then vessel info addresses etc would be out of date. Also the number of call signs required if historical ones werent cancelled would probably be boggling.

I haven`t got one but if I want to get from Crescent Beach to the Gulf Islands I transit US waters so I guess I need one. Then again Canada customs and immigration have also decided I have to let them know if I transit US waters even if I never make landfall(haven`t seen anyone enforcing that but they could). The US is still on the no landfall no customs deal and they`re generally the ones out in Boundary Bay.

Sadly it always seems the more you know the more you pay,

Willy

Which reminds me....I did eventually have to pay the sales tax on my boat....Did they make you pay Bob

[Tomfoolery]

. . . boarded them and gave them a thoroughly deserved rubber glove inspection including bringing their inability to use the VHF. I'd say as long as you're not abusing it no ones going to bother you to much.

No ambiguity in that description, is there?

I just remembered that I actually have a 'good for life' FCC Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit, from when I flew small planes. It doesn't even have a serial number - just the FCC seal, my name, and the date it was issued (in 1985).

Airplanes have station licenses, if memory serves, so an operator's license is required (US - don't know how it works in CA, but probably similar). But that license is only needed when operating a radio with a station license, and for marine VHF radio in US waters, the radio doesn't have to be licensed on boats that aren't required to even have a radio, and therefore the operator doesn't, either. So I guess the station license is needed in foreign waters, and therefore the operator's license to go with it?

I do know that when I've boated in Canada, traveling by water or (last year) by trailer, I just don't use the radio. I keep it on and monitor 16, but I don't use it otherwise, so I don't think I'm violating anything other than good taste in clothes. Of course, I wouldn't hesitate to transmit in an emergency, or to assist in someone else's emergency if need be, but I've always just assumed that I'm not breaking any rules as long as I don't transmit.

I looked into getting a station license for the boat once, but I seem to recall it was kind of expensive, and not worth the trouble for the few days I spend in Canada on a boat every couple of years. I'll just lay off the 'transmit' button.

[Whipsyjac]

Making foreigners use a Call sign is probably a language issue, which could be why Canada and the US were thinking we could exempt each other......Now if you're an English Yacht in the North Sea......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR0lWICH3rY

[geminiI-Can]

Even though you need the station license in US waters, apparently you don't need to use the assigned call sign as you have a choice according to the following quote from RBR-2 Technical Reqirements.....

The operator of a ship station shall identify the station using:

the call sign assigned by Industry Canada for that station if the radio station is licensed; or
the name of the ship or vessel; or
the Maritime Mobile Service Identities (MMSI) number with automated Digital Selective Calling (DSC).

The Industry Canada document that explains the radio station exemption can be found here:
http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.ns ... 01775.html

It seems clear that a Station License is required if you visit US waters ($38 per year) but again the question of who would enforce it and where? It may be a "convention" from the past but doesn't make much sense if nobody is interested in enforcing it.

Rick

[Tomfoolery]

It seems clear that a Station License is required if you visit US waters ($38 per year) but again the question of who would enforce it and where? It may be a "convention" from the past but doesn't make much sense if nobody is interested in enforcing it.

But is it required if you don't transmit? I'm under the impression that as long as you don't use the radio (which I assume means transmitting, not receiving as in 16 and weather) you aren't in violation of any laws or rules. That would apply to boats not actually required to even have a radio, which ours aren't, being small privately-owned pleasure boats.

But I could be wrong. This whole issue is a bit confusing.

[Starscream]

The Industry Canada website states in their F.A.Q section for Marine Transport:

Question: I'm planning a trip to the United States. How do I obtain a radio station licence?
Answer: Obtain a copy of IC-3020 - Application for a Maritime Mobile Radio Station Licence from Industry Canada.

On form IC-3020 it is stated that: "This application must be completed if you are engaged in voyages outside Canadian territorial waters and within the sovereign waters of a foreign administration, including the United States, ..."

The annual fee is $36. Seems like a good idea...err on the side of caution. $36 is nothing compared to the repercussions of not having the right documentation. You never know when you may meet an overzealous or grumpy official.

Some other legal issues to note in Canada: "Radio Stations shall be operated by the holder(s) of a valid Radio Operator Certificate of an appropriate class". In our case this is the Restricted Operators Certificate (Marine). Legally no one is allowed to touch the radio in non-emergency situations unless they have this certificate. Canadian jurisprudence has established the simple act of turning on the radio as "operation" so you can be fined during an inspection if they heard your callsign on the radio in a voice that obviously wasn't yours...i.e. if the admiral makes a call and doesn't have her license. If you don't have your certificate visit http://www.cps-ecp.ca/ to find the course nearest you. For our francophone compatriots just hit "francais" and you will be redirected to the Quebec course schedule.

Also, check your DSC radios: if they are not connected to a GPS, you are technically required to update your position into the radio every four hours. Oh, and if you are buying a radio don't buy the old-tech SC 101 DSC models that were dumped on the Canadian market: you want a Class D radio with GPS connectivity or built in GPS. That way when you hit the emergency button your position is reported automatically and you don't have to manually update your position every four hours.