Anchors

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

I'm getting ready to buy a third anchor for my Mac. I currently have one in the front locker and one for the stern, both fluke anchors. The third one will become my primary and I'll get one a bit oversized and mount it to the bow pulpit. I suppose I should probably get another fluke anchor since all my anchoring is in Florida mud and sand.

I'm trying to decide where is the best place to buy an anchor. Usually mail order is cheaper, but perhaps with an anchor, thats different due to the weight.

While I was browsing the overton's catalog, I saw one that I haven't seen before. Its called a Chene Anchor and there are not many specs given with it. What it says is "The unique shank configuration of the Chene anchor allows for 45 degrees of holding surface, so the large flukes penetrate deeply. Slip shank angle makes the anchor 100% retrievable. Can be retrieved straight up without the use of a separate trip line. High tensile zinc-plated steel construction." It also says that "it has 4 times the holding power of fluke style anchors." Anyone have any experience with these anchors, are they really 4 times better than something like a fortress? I'm also wondering whether the conventional rail mounts would work with an anchor like this?

I had been thinking about getting one of those kits that comes with chain and 150 feet of rode also. They are more inexpensive but I've only seen the kits with steel anchors and not aluminum. I think aluminum would be better to reduce the load when lifting it.

If anyone knows where a good place to buy anchors or has other recommendations, please let me know. Thanks, Dimitri

[mike]

Dimitri,

I'm in the same boat as you (sorry, that was bad)... I've got 2 fluke-style anchors, but am considering replacing 1 of them with something better.

I've heard lots of great stuff about these:

http://www.noteco.com/bulwagga/products.htm

At $250, they're priced MUCH higher than I wanted to spend on an anchor, but I dunno... perhaps it's worth it if it's really that good.

--Mike

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Mike, I know a lot of people swear by these bulwagga's and apparently practical sailor agrees. But that Chene anchor at Overtons runs $31 for 26'-30' boats and $36 for the next larger size. This kind of brings up a couple points:

1. How likely is it to lose your anchor? Be a lot worse to lose a $250 anchor than a $31 one!

and

2. How much is Noteco making in incredible profits on this thing? Afterall, how much can it cost to manufacture a steel anchor. I'll bet its less than 10% of what they are charging. Granted, maybe they are trying to pay off some expensive design work...or perhaps its just a monopoly patent thing. But it sure seems like there are a lot of Danforth clones out there, where is the Bulwagga clone priced closer to the competition? Also, would be nice to see an aluminum version at that price.

I'm not ragging on people who have bought a bull, afterall, a superior anchor will bring peace of mind that may well be worth the price. Certainly an interesting discussion though.

Btw, talking about practical sailor, I should try to pull up that comparison that they did. I just got a print subscription and they are supposed to give me free online access so that I can search previous stuff...but so far, that doesn't work. Oops, just noticed that the bulwagga site has a reprint of the article, so I guess I can read it there too.

[Mark Prouty]

I have been trying to purchase a Bulwagga anchor but nobody has them in stock. One supplier told me Bulwagga was changing manufacturers and wouldn't be available for many weeks.

I am considering returning plow anchor I just purchased and wonder if Bulwagga is worth the price. I was blown ashore last summer with a Danforth.

The Chene anchor sounds interesting.

[Chip Hindes]

I've had a Bulwagga for just under two years. I bought it based on Practical Sailor's testing. It's ugly, difficult to store, deploy and retrieve without banging the gelcoat, and once on the bottom it sets immediately and holds like crazy. Last summer in the keys we rafted six Macs overnight on my Bulwagga, and it held in wind gusts estimated at 20-25 knots. Before retrieving it the next morning, I dove down with mask and snorkel to check it out. I could see by the marks in the sand that it took about a foot to set, and then had not moved an inch during the night.

I've anchored in everything from mud to sand to sea grass to rocks and I've never had any problem. It sets immediately and will not drag or pull out; even if the wind shifts 180 degerees it just resets in the new direction. Note that the Mac's tendency to sail at anchor puts extra strain on the anchor and its ability to hold through direction changes.

Worth it? Compared to the amount we spend on frivolous stuff it's just not that much, and I think it's well worth it.

Buying a cheap anchor because you may lose it? Words fail me.

The unique shank configuration of the Chene anchor allows for 45 degrees of holding surface, so the large flukes penetrate deeply

I have no idea what "allows for 45 degrees of holding surface" means. It's pure marketing gibberish. The "large flukes" aren't any larger than those on any of the lightweight (Danforth type) anchors. The shank is too short and the anchor will be difficult to set. It's only my opinion, but the Chene looks like a piece of junk.

I have the original Practical Sailor tests if anyone's interested in a particular anchor. In order they liked the Spade, the Bull, CQR and Barnacle. I believe of these the Bull is actually the cheapest.

For some reason, people seem enamored of the Fortress; I've seen lots of testimonials that it's way better than the "stock" Danforth, but according to the PS test all the lightweight anchors (Danforth, Fortress, Vetus, West Marine Performance) are similar in design and perform similarly; in fact the Danforth and West Performance both rated slightly higher than the Fortress.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

I suppose its not so likely to lose an anchor so much where you or I sail, but things are different in very rocky bottoms with deep and/or cold water involved.

So how did you mount the Bull to the bow pulpit and how much chain do you use?

[craiglaforce]

I bought a 13# superhooker (Danforth style) at Boater's World for around $35. Sets fast and holds great. So far I have only anchored in mud. It has held in ~40 mph winds with 4 foot chop. I anchored because there was too much wind to sail upwind.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

For mud and sand the danforth style is certainly well proven. If you want a light anchor that will hold good an aluminum danforth is the best choice. The most widely used one of these is the fortress. It doesn't really hold better than a comparable fluke area steel danforth as Chip mentions, but it's advantage is it can hold the same as the steel yet weighs half as much. The 7lb fortress is the equivilant of a 13 lb steel danforth in holding power. The Fortress also has adjustable fluke angles. The normal 32 degree angle is for sand. In really soft mud this is not a sharp enough angle to hold well. You can change the fluke angle to 45 degrees on the fortress to get a better bite on the real soft stuff.

If you care about weight, then the fortress and it's lower cost cousin the guardian (which I have and trust completely) is a great choice particularly in your cruising ground which has very similar bottoms everwhere.

If you don't mind stepping up in weight and price, the the bulwagga is another great choice. You'll need the 17lb version for the mac, over 2-1/2 times the weight of the correct fortress/guardian. It holds as well because the 17 lb-er has a the same fluke surface area. You will also gain a anchor that can do well in harder and fouled bottoms that mess the danforths up.

Up here we have about every type of bottom you can think of. I wanted the bulwagga but just couldn't bring myself to spend $250. I supplemented my guardian with a bruce clone, the horizon claw. Now that the bruce patent has expired you can now get knock off designs for much less. I'm sure when the bulwagga patent expires the same thing will happen. The bruce style is not as good in sand and mud, but is great in foul and rocky bottoms which we have a lot of up here. By having two different styles I can count on having the right anchor no matter what the bottom. Another nice thing about the bruce style is it stores easily with no trouble on a bow roller. The three bladed bulwagga is tougher to deal with on the bow. I keep them both out on the bow and use the locker only for the two rodes.

My Setup

The Claw I use is 16.5 lbs, heavy, just like the bulwagga. This weight lets it get down into the bottom even when it's covered in seagrass or kelp. The light danforths just skate along the surface in the weeds.

There are other burying steel anchor choices such as the CQR, Delta, etc, but these all weigh in at over 20 lbs for the mac.

That's tha advantage of the Bulwagga. Large surface area like a danforth for soft bottoms, yet heavy weight like the burying steel anchors in the hard foul stuff.

For your rode, consider building a set rather than buying a kit. Every kit I've seen has way to short of a chain. The chain is the key to making a good anchor work great. I would say a 15' chain is the minimum and I'd prefer having a 25' piece on each rode. No one will laugh at you for having a peice of chain equal to the length of your boat. They'll know you mean business. The weight of the chain keeps the pull on the anchor horizontal which keeps it well buried. If the chain is so short and light that it get's lifted off the bottom you'll find you break out and drag a lot more. I also like having a bigger chain. The standard choin for a 3/8" rode is 3/16". It only weighs .39lbs per foot. Going up to 1/4" gets you .63 lb's per foot and 5/16" is 1 lb per foot. On the claw anchor I have 15' of 5/16" chain and this really helps it hold better. I have 20' of 3/16 on the other (came with the boat) on the guardian which is lighter.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Sorry for the previous post, I now see that both Chip and Frank have mounted Bulwagga's in the mods section....both look pretty functional. Duane's anchor setup looks pretty cool too. I'm curious if the anchor roller setups provide enough clearance away from the bow though. ie, can a swinging anchor still hit the bow when its being retrieved, etc?

Duane, thanks for the tips on chain sizes and lengths. Seems to be a lot of varying opinions on chains. I know that the serious cruisers use all-chain rodes many times, but they probably have windlasses also. For us daysailors and coastal cruisers, it may be an overkill. The other thing is that if you just invested in a nice light aluminum fortress anchor, and then add a chain that weighs 3-5 times as much as the anchor, you are kind of defeating the purpose a bit. So, just where is the optimum chain size and length at?

In order to keep the weight reasonable, I started wondering what would be more effective....a longer but smaller chain, or a shorter but larger chain?

Its interesting to see what the various recommendations are. On boatersworld, they recommend only 4 feet of chain for boats the size of a Mac. This is probably pretty consistent with the "kits" that are sold and is probably too little. Similarly, going with 26 feet of chain or all-chain may be too much for what I need to use it for. I checked Chapmans "bible" and they are a bit ambiguous also. There is a chain table where it recommends 8 feet of chain, but then down below, it also says half a foot of chain for each foot of boat length..which would be 13 in our case. I think on my old sailboat, I had about 6 feet of heavy chain and an aluminum fortress anchor.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Here's another point to ponder. Say one of these super duper anchors (like a Bulwagga or Spade) has twice the holding power of a decent Danforth. Now, which would be bettter...setting one super anchor, or two average anchors?

I suppose it is less hassle to set one anchor, however, it won't do anything for anchor swing which as we know is quite a bit on the high-freeboard Macs. Properly setting two (or three with one at the stern) anchors is gonna keep the boat much more stationary (head into waves, etc) and also resists wind and current changes to some degree.

Just curious what your opinions are on this.

[craiglaforce]

I never cared much for the thought of using an aluminum fortress anchor.

I think the extra weight of galvanized steel danforth types helps them dig in better and Steel is a lot strronger than aluminum. The metal strength is important on these, since they have immense holding power once the flukes are well dug in.

I use about 5 feet of heavy chain and the rode is 1/2 twisted nylon. If you have to pull up the boat to the anchor to raise anchor in a 30+ mph wind, you will be happy to have 1/2 inch and not 3/8 inch which will cut your hands and be difficult or impossible to hold with 100 lbs plus of wind load pulling against you.

Not as important if a second person can use the motor to relieve the strain.

[Steve M]

Some weeks ago we anchored overnight in the keys in 25-30 mph winds.
My Danforth did not hold at all. This was muddy-grassy bottom.
This is a 14# danforth. I see that most boats here on Biscayne bay use a Delta or plow anchor. I was told that the Danforth type load up with grass and turn into a mud ball. And that's exactly what happened that stormy night. Live and learn.

Steve

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Anchor and rode selection seems to have a art component as much as a science one so there are no hard fast rules.

For a year I had two identical sized danforths on board. One was the 7 lb aluminum guardian and the other was a 14 lb steel danforth. I can say without a doubt the guardian set and held better than the steel danforth in every situation, but in some neither would work. The steel danforth now lives in my shed. It could not compete with the effectiveness of the guardian.

I find that about 75% of the time I do set two anchors. Why, probably first of all for peace of mind, and secondly to limit swinging. The mac is such a wild beast at anchor that I find having two anchors out makes me a much better neighbor. If I'm confident in the wind and tide direction I'll set them out each 45 degrees to the left and right of my desired direction. More often though I am dealing with a tide/current shift that overpowers and wind direction influence. In these cases I set them out 180 degrees from each other. It's actually easier to set two this way than any other. You drop one, fall all the way back to the max length of your rode, drop the other, then pull back in on the first until you are in the middle. Throughout the course of a day I'll be on one or the other for about 6 hours as the tide and current change. By keeping the tension up on both rodes you can keep the mac parked in a single spot although you still swing back and forth around that spot rather than in a huge arc.

While 1/2" rode may be nice on the hands it's actually bad for both your cleats and anchor performance. We have very light high windage boats. 1/2" rode is to stiff to stretch under the load a mac can exert. 3/8" three strand is much more elastic and will absord a lot of the wind loading shock as the mac sails around the anchor. This saves cleats, and also has the effect of a more gradual lifting and pull on the anchor system so your set will hold better.It's the same reason your have to insert a section of nylon rode as a shock absorber in an all chain rode. You need some give to protect the boat and make the system work. Get a set of gloves and go with the smaller rode.

Anything in the single digits is to short of a chain. The west advisor says a combination rode with a chain 6' to 30' has two faults. It doesn't provide abrasion resistance and 15+ knots of wind will lift a short section of chain off the bottom. The primary function of the chain is to keep the pull horizontal. In many ways the chain is the key to the whole system. Add enough chain to keep it always on the bottom and you will think your anchor is the best one in the world. The kits with short chains are for those who just drop the hook for lunch, not for serious overnight anchoring.

West recommends a compromise between all chain and short chain of 60' to 100' of chain then a 250' rode. I think this is overkill for us, but a system that scales this back to a reasonable numbe yet still includes a heathly length of chin will make you and your family feel much more comfortable when your out there and the wind pipes up.

My roller setup with the claw is a great combo. You can just drop and hual the anchor from behind by pulling the rode. The anchor has never hit the bow. As soon as the shank getst to the roller it flip the right way around and slides home.

[Sloop John B]

If I had to start over, I would probably go with the ugly overpriced Bulwagga because of the boards testimonials.

I anchor in firm Florida sand/mud. I have never needed anything more than the lightweight guardian that fits (barely) in the anchor locker. However, Ive never been up against it weather wise being able to find leeward coves and hunker in. Biting flies, gnats, etc. are the challenge.

I have the appropriate Delta down below with its wrapper still on.

The swinging at anchor almost drives me seasick.

I now lug a little mushroom anchor (soccer ball size) borrowed from my fishing rig with me and simply toss it off the stern. It probably drags around down there but it allows me to at least get a focus on the landscape.

[Tom Root]

Well, is there anyone who has figured out how to minimize the sometimes violent "sailing" action when their X is at anchor. Two occasions last year, both at Catalina Island gave me cause for concern!

One time overnight at Goat Harbor after a great dive for some yummy lobsters, we settled in for the night. I noticed we moved as the current did a 180 degree on us. I reset, but didn't sleep well that night, had 2 anchors out bahama style 14 lb danforths. When I woke up the next morning it wasn't a minute too soon, as sheer wall cliffs were closing in on us, (less than 6' away!) we dragged at least 50 yards in 5 hours or less. 12' of chain on both, rocky/sandy bottom more than 5 to 1 scope. Most of the time the swells were maybe 5 feet, in an unprotected cove. Other boats in the area where just fine! I am sure glad I didn't have an insurance claim that night!

Next occasion was in the Isthmus anchorage (near the dinghy dock) I went there several times (it's free, but shallow) I had 3 anchors out same configuration as before with an additional stern anchor. These times the boat stayed, but talk about embarassing, the only boat in the harbor that looked like it was on a leash and wanted to get away!. When aboard, tucked in below when I couldn't see outside was not bad, but I look outside and see us doing a bee line for an expensive Catamaran, and hoping it all goes well! Give yourself plenty of room when conditions warrant it. I have even had 4 anchors out with no real cure!

About 3 weekends ago I dropped a hook in San Diego Bay for the night in a quiet anchorage. Little if any perceivable wind, and the water like a lake, flat as glass, but still there were the slow but perceptive back and forth oscillations. I have had the CB, and rudders Up, down, ballast empty/full, etc. with no real change in results

I will mention that if you are tied up in a raft up configuration, (2 or more boats) there is little or no movement, as long as the hooks are placed correctly, stern anchor, etc. Oh, and stagger your masts!!!!

So, the question remains.....who has a fix for a wandering boat like our's?

I tried a few suggestions from VYCSD club members, and well, had mixed results, but still no fix........anybody?????