Standing rigging strength needs?

[matsconn]

I have a 2006 26M I recently purchased. I am not happy with the standing rigging or the mast-boom gooseneck connection which appear weak and undersized. I had a 19' Lightning which had stronger side shrouds, stronger forestay and an aft stay which enabled it to sail in winds to 30 knots with a reffed main and storm jib - no problems.

I'm thinking of adding an aft stay connected to a 'D' ring at the top of the mast for the 26M. Also, the 26M I have has what appears to have an undersized connection of the roller reefing stay to the bow chain plate. Does anyone have suggestions how I can beef up the 26M standing rig? I sail in Coastal New England waters which can blow hard and turn rough fast in squalls. I'm afraid of loosing the mast and/or boom? Please advise. Thanks Matsconn.

[kadet]

The lightning is a racing dingy designed to be pushed hard capsized and recovered with its rig in the water, they have a lot of sail area for their size and need a strong rig.

The is a cruiser water ballasted and has a rig (if still factory original) that is more than adequate for it's intended purpose. It is far stronger than you may think. It took me some time to get use to it as it was no stronger than the rigs on my old beach cats. But you will find it needs no strengthening. You will not be sailing in 30+ knots of wind with any appreciable amount of sail up. You will not be capsizing the boat and standing on the centreboard to right it.

These boats are not sailing around with their rigs all collapsing with owners scrambling to replace them. A heaver rig is only going to add weight and reduce your boats performance which is bad enough to start with.

Do some searching on past posts on this site about the rig for more, this has been discussed Ad nauseam.

[yukonbob]

Blue water yachts does sell upgraded standing rigging if you're hull bent on it. I believe the stock side stays are rated at 3200lb ea and the forestay at 3800-4000 (something ridiculous like that) working load so you can pick up the boat loaded with The stock rigging. In fact the manual suggests if mast top work need to be done use the lower shrouds to pull the boat on its side. The gooseneck does seem flimsy but there is very little force being put on it. Kadet's right in that if you're out in 30+knts you can't have much sail up unless you like sailing at a 90 degree heel. With appropriate reefs these boats can take on a lot more than most captains are willing to.

[matsconn]

Thank you. Are you suggesting that an aft stay attached to a 'D' ring at the top of the mast is not necessary? Does Blue Water have rigging such as standing rigging and boom to mast goose necks designed specifically for the 26M?

[RobertB]

The 26M rig is a fractional rig where aft support to the mast is via the side stays. That said, if you start adding extra fore sails that attach much above the to side stays, then you may need a backstay to support the top of the mast.

[Tomfoolery]

Remember also that the main sheet is pulling downward, and being aft of the mast base, does a lot to reduce the shroud loads as far as resisting forward rotation of the mast. A large spinnaker has a different balance of forces, and may put more load on the shrouds. But I still wouldn't worry about it. Many folks sail the M with an asymmetric spinnaker, and haven't ripped the rigging apart despite their best efforts.

That's an M in the front, and my X in the back.

[walt]

Im in the process of putting a roller furler on a 26S so have been using google to dig up all sorts of useful info and one thread from this forum came up just yesterday that might be of interest to the OP

http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/v ... =8&t=18807

The bottom line is fairly simple.. a toggle at the top of a roller furling forestay is important to prevent point loading damage to the wire from all the little stresses that happen from sailing. Add in a rotating mast and the ability to motor fast and that toggle becomes even more important.

I would just make sure you have that toggle in place at the top of the forestay as from reading that thread, it may not have been a standard install with roller furling. Everything else is likely fine. If that toggle was never intalled, do a good job inspecting the forestay at the top..

FYI, this forum has been useful to me for information!

[yukonbob]

That’s why I regularly replace my rigging as the fittings hold water and can hide visual cues of corrosion. I don’t use the toggle as Judy describes but rather a large SS seized shackle as most appear to as well.

[mastreb]

You might consider 5mm dyneema dux rigging as a good alternative that won't add weight. I've done it on my boat and really like the result. It will creep shorter (tighter) over time with beating, so have make it to your longest stay-adjuster setting, and when you've had to adjust all the way short you can have it pulled back out, which you may need to do every five years or so (I've not had to, but then I'm not sailing in 30 knot winds either). I stayed with an (upgraded) stainless forestay.

Biggest real issue with the stock rig in my opinion is the very week spreaders. If they bend, which they easily do, you'll lose rig tension completely. I replaced mine with some same-sized (O.D. and I.D.) stock carbon fiber tube and that has worked well.

[padge]

Biggest real issue with the stock rig in my opinion is the very week spreaders. If they bend, which they easily do, you'll lose rig tension completely. I replaced mine with some same-sized (O.D. and I.D.) stock carbon fiber tube and that has worked well.

mine have bent very slightly ( from trailering incorrectly not sailing !)
what is the correct size to get ?

[seahouse]

You might consider 5mm dyneema dux rigging as a good alternative that won't add weight. I've done it on my boat and really like the result. It will creep shorter (tighter) over time with beating, so have make it to your longest stay-adjuster setting, and when you've had to adjust all the way short you can have it pulled back out, which you may need to do every five years or so (I've not had to, but then I'm not sailing in 30 knot winds either). I stayed with an (upgraded) stainless forestay.

Biggest real issue with the stock rig in my opinion is the very week spreaders. If they bend, which they easily do, you'll lose rig tension completely. I replaced mine with some same-sized (O.D. and I.D.) stock carbon fiber tube and that has worked well.

Are you sure that under load the HMPE is getting shorter, Matt? Under load, even cycling loads, the lines should be getting longer (stress-strain). The only explanation I can offer is that the line is being twisted (there might be a pattern on the line so that you can detect that) which would make it appear as though it is getting shorter (?)

Even the thick 1/2" dia. HMPE top-down furler line, which gets twisted in use, needs a "set-in" time during which the material creeps (like wire rope) and elongates.
-Brian.

[Russ]

Thank you. Are you suggesting that an aft stay attached to a 'D' ring at the top of the mast is not necessary? Does Blue Water have rigging such as standing rigging and boom to mast goose necks designed specifically for the 26M?

The stock rig is fine. NO backstay which took me a while to get used to but now I love it.

If you want, BWY sells a heavier forestay, but you don't need it. I haven't read a single case of failure from the stock rigging.

Now go enjoy the boat.

[mastreb]

Are you sure that under load the HMPE is getting shorter, Matt? Under load, even cycling loads, the lines should be getting longer (stress-strain). The only explanation I can offer is that the line is being twisted (there might be a pattern on the line so that you can detect that) which would make it appear as though it is getting shorter (?)

Even the thick 1/2" dia. HMPE top-down furler line, which gets twisted in use, needs a "set-in" time during which the material creeps (like wire rope) and elongates.
-Brian.

Yes, it's counterintuitive. When the rigger made my stays, he pulled them out with a 4000 lb. winch. As the strands move and flex, they will draw tighter over time. They can always be pulled back out if they're in good shape. He recommended not making loops tighter than 2' in radius to avoid having them creep shorter faster.

This is why they're making artificial muscle out of the stuff--it also shortens under electrical impulse as it turns out.

[mastreb]

Biggest real issue with the stock rig in my opinion is the very week spreaders. If they bend, which they easily do, you'll lose rig tension completely. I replaced mine with some same-sized (O.D. and I.D.) stock carbon fiber tube and that has worked well.

mine have bent very slightly ( from trailering incorrectly not sailing !)
what is the correct size to get ?

You need carbon fiber tube: 44" long, 0.875 O.D., 1.000" O.D. All the stock fittings will work with this size.

[seahouse]

Are you sure that under load the HMPE is getting shorter, Matt? Under load, even cycling loads, the lines should be getting longer (stress-strain). The only explanation I can offer is that the line is being twisted (there might be a pattern on the line so that you can detect that) which would make it appear as though it is getting shorter (?)

Even the thick 1/2" dia. HMPE top-down furler line, which gets twisted in use, needs a "set-in" time during which the material creeps (like wire rope) and elongates.
-Brian.

Yes, it's counterintuitive. When the rigger made my stays, he pulled them out with a 4000 lb. winch. As the strands move and flex, they will draw tighter over time. They can always be pulled back out if they're in good shape. He recommended not making loops tighter than 2' in radius to avoid having them creep shorter faster.

This is why they're making artificial muscle out of the stuff--it also shortens under electrical impulse as it turns out.

I see, that is what sets it apart, it has been pre-stressed/tensioned and it is returning to (almost!)its original length. HMPE would normally stretch longer in length, it would be important to know whether or not that had been done prior to installation.