Looked at another boat...

[Seapup]

Went and looked at this one today...It has a lot of leaks and is pretty rough at over 40 years old. The interior is basically gut and start over. I would basically spend my 3 month summer off refitting it vs sailing the mac. I liked the size of it vs some others much newer/nicer cats I have looked at. Anyone with experience or thoughts on them?

[Wayne nicol]

dont know anything about them, but looks like a great boat.
your post got me thinking...where there ever any hi speed motor sailors cats that were built in the mac size range.
same principal as the macs- just in a cat configuration- but with a 20 mph speed, possibly water ballast too?

[Russ]

A cat by nature doesn't need any ballast. The weight of the other hull is the ballast.

One of these showed up in my winter storage lot. The cat/tri design probably doesn't lend to high speedpower, but it is very trailerable.
http://corsairmarine.com/trimarans/c28-cr/

[Seapup]

where there ever any hi speed motor sailors cats that were built in the mac size range

Kind of...due to the fact that they don't have ballast some come as both a power catamaran and sail catamaran. The closest size to mac is probably the Telstar trimaran at 28' & trailerable which came with a 20 or 50 hp Honda. The 50 will do 15 knots reported by owners.

One of these showed up in my winter storage lot. The cat/tri design probably doesn't lend to high speedpower, but it is very trailerable.

I know a guy locally with a F28, I still have to take him up on his offer to take me out...I fear once I do though there will be no going back. He uses no motor and says if there is wind and you are not doing double digits something is wrong.

I have looked at a few cats due to only wanting a shallow draft boat and this is the first one that has seemed manageable for what I want and would still be fun and fast to sail. It feels huge compared to the mac though.

I always look for signs...This morning at 6am on the way into work coming from my dry cozy I got T-boned by another car in the middle of a thunderstorm. After sitting soaked in my crunched windowless car for 2 hours getting rained on and waiting for the police report to be done I came to the decision maybe its a sign I don't need another project right now...especially a leaky boat...or is it a sign to take the insurance for the car and buy another boat instead?

[Y.B.Normal]

I had a chance to sail on a homebuilt version of the 31' Corsair.
Good cabin and cockpit room and it sails like a bat out of he--.
I've seen several for sale for about $75,000. I'd love one if I could convince the Admiral.

The 28' Corsair has a smaller cabin than a Mac, but you can get a small crowd on the tramps and in the
cockpit and still sail fast.

[Ixneigh]

I was hot for the 28 till I actually went on one. It's pretty small inside the cabin.
Sure it's fast. But speed isn't as important to me now as it was. Half the time I just have the Main up, anyway.
Ix

[mastreb]

Same for me as Ix. I was convinced that the 28' corsair was the boat for me until I crewed on one for a couple of outings. Fast yes, but getting that thing on and off the trailer makes a MacGregor look positively simple in comparison. Imagine four grown men tits deep at the launch ramp trying to get that thing back on the trailer for an hour and you get the idea.

Plenty fast, yes--we hit 16 knots under sail and they just leave monos in the dust. But they're way too small in the cabin for anything but bare camping. We're talking way less space than a 22 footer inside, and very low. It's basically a crawl-through cabin. There was just no way my family would have fit aboard.

So I saved $60 grand and bought a MacGregor instead. It's the only monohull sailboat that can outrun a tri

[Seapup]

I guess my original post was looking for opinions from people that have owned larger boats and if its worth the extra benefits they provide vs the loss simplicity. Or giving up a completed project to start another one, kinda how Sumner has both the mac and endeavor.

My main holdback of going larger is I don't want to give up the macs shallow draft, but this is about the same with kick up rudders/daggers.

[Ixneigh]

Only you can answer that, seapup. I gave up a three foot draft centerboard yawl with lots of space and bought a mac that I'm far happier with. It suits my sailing lifestyle better.
Ix

[mastreb]

The problem with larger boats is cost. It's SUBSTANTIALLY more expensive to own a larger boat. Let's say you keep your boat ten years and then sell it.

Our MacGregor cost us $33,000 new, +$10K in upgrades and equipment over four years, and $200/mo. to store mast up at a marina. Insurance is really cheap, something like $400/year. So that's maybe $3000/year. to keep. After ten years the boat will be worth perhaps $20,000, so the total ten year cost to own is something like $55,000 or $460/mo.

But for people who can store the boat on their own and don't mind forgoing insurance, The total cost to own is just $25,000.

With our big boat, its $250,000 new, $10K in upgrades (came mostly complete), $2000/year insurance, $700/mo. slip fees, and $100/mo. hull cleaning. It will be worth perhaps $100,000 at the 10 year mark. So that's $2300/mo. to own: 5X the cost. Sure, it's more convenient but a Mac can be kept in a slip as well.

When you look at the recurring cost of boat ownership, which for our 38' is about $12,000 per year, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to buy a cheap hull and then spend a lot of money just to keep it. When I had a 32' Columbia Sabre which I purchased for $5000, I paid that much every year to slip it (at modern fees it would be 2X the cap cost per year), which is the reason I went with the MacGregor for boat #2.

[BOAT]

The problem with larger boats is cost. It's SUBSTANTIALLY more expensive to own a larger boat. Let's say you keep your boat ten years and then sell it.

Our MacGregor cost us $33,000 new, +$10K in upgrades and equipment over four years, and $200/mo. to store mast up at a marina. Insurance is really cheap, something like $400/year. So that's maybe $3000/year. to keep. After ten years the boat will be worth perhaps $20,000, so the total ten year cost to own is something like $55,000 or $460/mo.

But for people who can store the boat on their own and don't mind forgoing insurance, The total cost to own is just $25,000.

With our big boat, its $250,000 new, $10K in upgrades (came mostly complete), $2000/year insurance, $700/mo. slip fees, and $100/mo. hull cleaning. It will be worth perhaps $100,000 at the 10 year mark. So that's $2300/mo. to own: 5X the cost. Sure, it's more convenient but a Mac can be kept in a slip as well.

When you look at the recurring cost of boat ownership, which for our 38' is about $12,000 per year, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to buy a cheap hull and then spend a lot of money just to keep it. When I had a 32' Columbia Sabre which I purchased for $5000, I paid that much every year to slip it (at modern fees it would be 2X the cap cost per year), which is the reason I went with the MacGregor for boat #2.

Yes, here is wisdom for all to read above. Why bother with a cheap crappy boat when it's going to cost you 5 grand a year anyways??? Mastreb is right. Get a nice boat and you get more value for your money. Trying to scrimp on a big boat is sort of counter productive. If you gonna spend the money well, SPEND IT! If you gonna shell out the big bucks anyways at least get something in return.

[dlandersson]

It's not "just" the cost - it's the use (opportunity cost). IF you do any sailing, the opportunity to sail really drops off if your boat can't single-hand. If it can be handled by one person, you have much more flexibility about going sailing.

[Ixneigh]

At this point in my life I don't want anything I can't single hand. That said I don't think I've been on a modern sailboat I couldn't in a pinch. But it might not be fun or easy. Problem with large boats is when things screw up. There is where you need extra help. Windlass bites it. Sail furler jams. Engine conks out. Thirty feet is my cutoff point. One time I had to sail the anchor out on the yawl because I just could not pull it up. I had an incapable person at the helm so the boat was essentially out of control. We sailed over the anchor and the boat yanked it out handily just like I figured it would. But then 40 feet of chain and a 45 lb anchor was dragging behind the boat trying to bash the bottom of the boat and rudder. Oi. It took an hour to get things sorted out and the correct sails up for the increasing winds.

I think I'd look for the best sailing boat I could get if I was in the mood for another boat. There's a lot to be said for something that can short tack through a cut and instills confidence sailing through a crowd of moored boats. My heavy keel boats were like that. That don't mean super fast btw.it means able in all conditions it's likely to encounter plus ones that are important to you. How does that corsair sail without it's board down? I bet it won't tack without it.
Can it sail slow, and under control ? You won't want to be going 16 kn in bad light in a few situations. You want to be doing about three as you look for coral heads coming into a Bahamian harbor.
Ix

[Russ]

, and $100/mo. hull cleaning.

A month? Do you have it cleaned every month or are you averaging annual cleaning out per month?

[Russ]

Problem with large boats is when things screw up. There is where you need extra help. Windlass bites it. Sail furler jams. Engine conks out. Thirty feet is my cutoff point. One time I had to sail the anchor out on the yawl because I just could not pull it up. I had an incapable person at the helm so the boat was essentially out of control. We sailed over the anchor and the boat yanked it out handily just like I figured it would. But then 40 feet of chain and a 45 lb anchor was dragging behind the boat trying to bash the bottom of the boat and rudder. Oi. It took an hour to get things sorted out and the correct sails up for the increasing winds.

This is a valid point. Actually, even smaller boats like our Macs can get into trouble single handed when things go wrong. However, with the scale of the Mac, as you said, easier to pull up a 22 lb anchor than a 45lb one.