Anyone with a M abandoned the traveler and used a X setup?

[RandyMoon]

When sailing the M, and putting the sail out at an angle for a broad reach, the mainsheet lays on the lifelines. This does not make it easy to make angle adjustments because the sheet rubs on the lifeline. I have nicks in the mainsheet.

So, has anyone considered adding a pedestal mount to their M for attaching the mainsheet at a higher angle to avoid the lifeline/mainsheet rub?

[DLT]

That same thing occured to me, while single handing, yesterday...

I'm a novice sailor, so my traveller just stays centered.

My biggest concern with securing it to the pedestal would be the force of the mainsheet on the pipe-to-floor joint, with the pedestal itself acting as a lever... I was thinking it might be better to install one of those grab rails that goes all the way to the floor and rigidly secure that to the pedestal. Together, they would probably be able to handle the loads...

Of course, every "solution" just introduces new issues. A grab rail going all the way to the floor would chew up valuable cockpit floor space...

I guess I'll just leave mine alone for a while...

Besides part of me wants the lifeline to chew through the mainsheet, so I can have the perfect excuse to replace it. There were a few 'desparate' moments as I was trying to discern mainsheet from jib sheet, while heeled over...

[RandyMoon]

That was my issue... the boat heeling too much and needing to adjust the mainsheet and the Admiral having to force feed the line through the mainsheet to let the sail out. I would think for safety purposes, you would want a reponsive and smooth mainsheet setup. No hangups.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing with the chrome pedestal post, it would make a great lever. Beside the grab rail idea, I was also thinking of welding some kind of extension for the traveler mount to get the mainsheet up higher.

Anyway you look at it, the mainsheet is a critical attachment and some poorly implemented idea could spell disaster.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

I think you'll find the M pedestal is at least as strong as the X fiberglass pedestal. Isn't there a loop installed by the factory on the pedestal for the mainsheet? I know the early M's had one. The factory designed that as an attachment point as well.

[Tom Spohn]

Current M's do not have a loop on the pedestal. I suppose one could be attached, but I am not sure if the M pedestal is designed to take the load. Also, once the boom swings beyond the end of the traveller it no longer serves to apply downforce to the boom. The solution to the downforce issue is to add a vang to the boom. Only difference with the vang on the X is that the vang line cannot be run down through blocks and back to the cockpit as it can on the X. The vang needs the control line to be run straight back to the cockpit and tied off at the end of the boom. If you run the line down to the bail at the bottom of the mast and over to port or starboard and around a turning block the mast will rotate when the vang is applied.

[baldbaby2000]

When I'm on a broad reach or a run I usually bring the traveller to about the center to avoid this. I use the boom vang to keep the boom where I want it. I let the traveller out as needed on a beat or close reach. I wonder if you could slide a plastic sleeve (maybe PVC pipe) over the spot where the sheet rubs.

I don't think it would be a good idea to have all that stress from the main sheet pulling on the pedestal.

[normo]

I have an X and didn't like the mainsheet attached to the pedastal if the wind picked up. In addition to providing minimal controls for trimming the main I thought it was dangerous. Lots of line swinging past passengers in the dinky cockpit when you jibe or tack. Normally this is not a problem but when the wind picks up I always worried about non sailor passengers getting hurt.

I had a setup like the M on my Cal 25-2 and I didn't like that on either. Talk about a dangerous setup. If that car isn't secured it can do serious damage if it slams to the other side and a body part is in the way.

I opted for a home made cabin top traveler. I have only been out half dozen times in 15-18 knot winds so I'm not ready to declare succes yet but so far so good. It provides great control of the main. The lines going to the boom are now completely out of the cockpit leaving a single line running back to the cockpit for the Admiral or person on the wheel to tend. Now the majority of the mainsheet line resides down in the cabin floor which most Admirals won't like but there could be better solutions to this. The downside is that I had to insert an aluminum extrusion inside the boom to minimize bending. The M has a larger main which would increase the loads. Don't know if the M boom is stiffer than the X. Not perfect but better for past their prime racers and much safer.

[tidalwave]

A few months ago, someone on this forum mentioned a Harken mainsheet traveler and rail for small boats. The traveler has cam cleats on both ends
so that you can hold the mainsheet higher on the rail if you want.
I replaced my Mac Rail with the Harken rail also.
The rig works great and there is much less wear on my lifelines. Of course, the mainsheet is pulling at a higher position when I set it that way.

I also like the fact that I can set the camcleats so that the traveler car can't slam over to the other side of the cockpit. I now have control of how fast the car moves to the other side.

The Harken website has a series of drawings which show their travelers.

[Zavala]

I just received all the parts (rail, controls, block, etc.) to add a Harken windward sheeting traveler to the stern rail on my M19. The decition was based in part on a couple threads from this board.

It will be a couple of weeks before I get it installed, but I will let everyone know how it works out once tested.

[baldbaby2000]

I opted for a home made cabin top traveler. I have only been out half dozen times in 15-18 knot winds so I'm not ready to declare succes yet but so far so good. It provides great control of the main.

Normo. I do agree that one has to be careful with the M traveller if it's not locked in one position. Do you have any photos of your modification?

Dan

[Andy26M]

I don't find the mainsheet running over the lifeline to be an issue. As posted above, by the time you are on braod enough reach for this to be an issue, the vang is controlling the boom height so the angle of the mainsheet doesn't much matter.

As to the sheet chafing on the lifeline, I just used some sail tape to wrap the lifeline end fittings and cover any rough edges. If that doesn't quite do it for you, you could wrap the lifeline with a strip of canvas and tape or sew it in place as anti-chafe gear.

- AndyS

[RandyMoon]

OK, I am going to abandoned this idea. I was on the boat yesterday and played with the mainsheet up on the pedestal and it would have lines whacking passengers in the head. I went out sailing and adjusted the vang and got the boom up a little higher. It still rubs a little across the lifeline but I'll try some wrap on the sharp areas. It seemed to sail better with the vang adjustment.

Thanks for all the good thoughts!!

[Terry]

Just for the record the steel tubing of the M pedestal is not welded very securely to the flange at the base, I know because mine broke there while setting up one day and I had it replaced under warranty. I suppose just the force of the mast resting on it finally made it break. I would never trust it to the forces of the mainsheet even though I have an early M with the steel eyelt/loop, it would likely break the pedestal again.