Ixneigh wrote:Anything beyond 20 degrees of heel and I reduce sail.
In 25k of wind I have the 2nd reef in and a small hank on jib. In 30k i go anchor somewhere. Boat will tack ok with good wave timing and back winding the jib as she come around even with my skegs which slightly hinder tacking. If the boats on her side she ain't going to Do it.
For heavy air that roller furling headsail is not as good as a nice stought hank on (not the factory jib) headsail. Not by a long shot.
Btw tacking at low speeds in lighter conditions.
I used to have an issue tacking with no board down (in shallow water) but I learned a fun little trick. Release the jib pull the main then pick up both rudders. Once she's around just drop them again.
Ix
Not sure I'm coordinated enough to pull off the rudder thing.. I hope to see if the luff pads on my new jib help the sail shape in stronger winds. Anybody had experience with that?
I am intrigued by his rudders-up tack plan also. Note though, he is addressing low speed, light air tacking with this. I would love to hear a more detailed description of what he's doing. Sounded to me like he was steering through the tack with the mainsail - possibly back-winding the main to spin the boat on the dagger board. If so, I wonder how much beer was required to first try that as a tacking strategy. That Ix is one interesting guy. I really enjoy reading his posts and getting his views on various topics.
Back winding the jib means he doesn't release the leeward sheet until the nose passes thru the wind. The Jib being "backwards" helps push the nose through the tack.
I have roller main and Genoa, and have very limited experience in the 25-30k range (i.e. once so far...). I was reefed down to about 2 beach towels worth of Sail area on the main and Genoa. I left the ramp in it, so I was prepared to be hammered. I did have trouble tacking with the boat's windage, heavily reefed sails (and very limited experience with the boat). I employed the 60 Etec tack method. The crew I had was already on edge, so after failing the first tack attempt, I didn't try again with sails only. Otherwise the boat was very well behaved and handled the chop and wind fine.
I asked one of my keel boat buddies what I did wrong and he told me, "on a day like that, you sit on the porch at the club with an adult beverage. You don't head out when it's like that".
Sorry, Here in Oz (and Europe) "K" can mean kilometers so Knots are often abbreviated as "Kts"
"leeward sheet".... Thats "leeward" to the wind after you have completed the tack?... So after the Tack the Jib clew would (still) be on the wrong side of the boat??
Yep Ix is a good guy for thinking way outside of the square
It would be unusual for anyone over 20 years old in the states to use kph for speed. If anyone I knew used a k in that context it would be "lazy" for knots. But I am making an assumption.
Leeward before the tack. Correct, the clew will be windward (wrong side), after the tack. As the nose passes through the wind, the jib pushes the nose around. Then, you straighten it out after you've made the tack.
Oh yea sorry. Kilometers. Forgot about those...
I did mean knots.
To clear up the rudder thing...while sailing with the board more than half up, or all the way up, the boat will not come about reliably. She might if you have a small jib and can do the back winding thing just right while also sheeting the main in. I frequently sail in sketchy water with the board up and the rudder down but not tied. In case I hit something like I did on Saturday crossing a shallow area. Obviously near shore or other instructions obstructions you want to be in control and be able to turn around. I used to drop the anchor and "clubhaul" the boat around but I can't do that now with my current anchor. So, I was delighted to discover that sheeting the main in and slacking the jib, then pulling both rudders up (one at a time) will cause the boat to tack instantly. Note I do not have the motor down.
When sailing with the rudder half up this is not hard to do. You don't even need to turn the wheel. Just pick the rudders up, tack, and drop them. They say not to sail with the rudders like that, but I do often, with care. The skeg mod helps a bit to be sure.
I am much less inclined to try that rudder trick in deep water. I don't think its needed if you have the board down all the way.
Ix
With no Rudders, OB or Dagger Board down it sounds like the boat turns (pivots) around the bow?
I'd like to try this on my next trip So just to make sure I have this right when you say "Release the jib pull the main up" for mean slacken the Jib sheet and the mainsheet .... Right?
Tacking with an anchor sounds kinda unreal .... was that off of Port and Starboard
md80max wrote:This 26M is my first sail boat and the only boat I have ever sailed period. Had it only a few months and having a great deal of fun and learning along the way as well.
Last week on the lake I sail, the winds were steady at 22 knots gusting into the low 30's. As much fun as it was, I could not get the boat to tack without motor assist. I had the main reefed and only about 1/4 to 1/3 of the jib out. I tried different trim settings for both but still, not luck. I tried it with the Jib all the way stowed. I tried to put a little more of the jib out but the boat would just round up. One of the local sailors stated to me that my boat doesn't have enough rudder for wind conditions like that.
Now, I have no doubt my lack of experience sailing in winds like this was a factor. I wanted to ask here for tips if you have any. It's not the kind of winds we have here in Texas every week but it was fun to go out in that kind of wind and see what it would be like.
Thanks
Could you possibly be trying to sail too close to the wind? Bear away a bit to pick up speed and the tack backing the head sail to push you around would be my suggestion. That wind speed is force 6, the upper limit of a MAC. I would have 2 reefs in (or not be out at all). I believe that the trick of being happy with a Mac is to embrace it's limitations. Force 6 is pushing it. The boat is a ultra light weight trailer sailer and not designed for heavy weather despite any marketing B*** S*** from Roger.
I have this discussion at my yacht club. Lots of people claim the boat is rubbish because it is not a heavy ocean cruiser but I have sailed in many great locations last year by towing it that would take weeks to reach in a heavy cruiser. I asked a friend with great blue water yacht how many new location he visited last year and the answer was none. I went to 6 great new places.
This thread is going into outer space as far as I'm concerned - the boat is just not that hard to tack - it's EASY - I have never ever ever had any of the kind of issues you folks are debating here trying to turn the boat. I am at a loss to understand the problem. If your sailing along and you turn the wheel the boat will turn - if it does not there is something really really wrong.
You are turning INTO the wind - right?? ALWAYS turn INTO the wind - if your doing that there should be no issue.
Unless your in the coral reefs like those Key Largo guys, you should not need to mess with a fully deployed daggerboard or rudders or anything - if all that stuff is down in the water and tied off as it should be there is no need to mess with it - just turn the damn boat. If the Jib sheet is released it will nearly take care of itself.
Probably because you are a much better sailor than those of us who have trouble. High winds, heavily reefed main and Genoa; is the only time I've had the boat refuse to tack. But I can certainly understand someone having trouble under those conditions.
Normal conditions, I agree with you. The boat almost tacks itself.
Jimmyt wrote:Probably because you are a much better sailor than those of us who have trouble. High winds, heavily reefed main and Genoa; is the only time I've had the boat refuse to tack. But I can certainly understand someone having trouble under those conditions.
Normal conditions, I agree with you. The boat almost tacks itself.
I'm having as real hard time wrapping my head around that - I am no great sailor - and I have sailed a LOT of boats that are way harder to handle than the MAC - the only time I can remember having a boat so gunked up that I could not turn was in a 40 knot blow in the Sea of Cortez in a 1974 CAL 35 (it had a high freeboard and a really long keel) - The problem was not speed - the boat would get up to 15 knots easy on a broad reach but with the wind blowing so hard there was no way to turn the boat into the wind because it would get blown back over the other way - I can't believe you guys are going through that - and if you are your sailing in really wrong conditions.
If your sailing in 40 knot winds there should not even be any sail on the mast - a fractional rig carries too much of it's sail plan on the forward part of the boat - reefing mains for gale is not an option with the stock main - if your in stuff like that pull the main down. At that point your in storm jib territory - when it's that bad all you need is about 20% of the jib out and that's it. When it's time to turn the boat should turn upwind but if you are in a gale force it is possible that the wind is so strong the boat is broadsided by wind - the freeboard won't let it turn - in that case WITH JIB ONLY (NEVER with a main up) you can turn AWAY from the wind - by carefully timing your turn so that you are going up the swell and making the pivot on the top of the swell you can safely turn the boat WITH the wind with a jib only - it essentially means your going to sail downwind to get the power you need to turn - it's unorthodox, but it works.
This is really advanced heavy oceans stuff - you guys should not be messing around with this kind of sailing at all - not in our boats. What the he-ll are you doing?
Ixneigh wrote:Anything beyond 20 degrees of heel and I reduce sail.
Well here's something that I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around. ... Only 20 degrees??? ... Isn't that when all the fun starts ... Or am I just crazy
sailboatmike wrote:But 20 to 25 degrees is the boats sweet spot, any more and its just counter productive (creating drag) and slowing you down
I find attaining speed far more exhilarating than gunnels in the water
Good Lord, I can put boat over to 45 degrees with less than 15 knots of wind - I totally agree with Neo on this one - I think you guys might be getting a bit too touchy about the heel angle - so you might breech 35 degrees for a little while that's nothing to really get exited about - just keep sailing. If the boat is getting pounded down and you can't control it then I can understand - but a few temporary gusts to 40 degrees is not going to hurt anything.
BOAT wrote:Good Lord, I can put boat over to 45 degrees with less than 15 knots of wind - I totally agree with Neo on this one
So I'm not crazy then..... Yippee lol!
I've hit 35 degrees and I thought it was just my poor sailing techniques but 45 degrees sounds like twice as fun lol!.... And good to know that others have done that on a 26M and survived lol!... Thanks BOAT
I hope to see if the luff pads on my new jib help the sail shape in stronger winds. Anybody had experience with that?
.... was that off of Port and Starboard 
... Or am I just crazy 
