Cr@p dropped the mast

[BOAT]

How long are your baby stays? As noted a few posts above, I'm trying to figure out why mine are always slack when raising/lowering the mast...

They should be sort of floppy when the mast is in the down position but fairly tight by the time the mast is fully upright - the adjustment is accomplished by the length of the bowline you tie at the end of the line where the baby stays and winch rope connect to the mast bale.

Hmm, I thought I retied my bowline to the dimensions shown in the manual, I guess I must have made it too large. I'll check again tonight (so I don't forget!), but won't need to test it until I pull the boat out this fall.

It does not need to be like really really tight when the mast is upright, but there should be hardly no slack in the stays when the mast is in the upright position - you want the baby stays as taught as possible in the upright position that it's still easy to unscrew the baby stays from the stanchions. You can achieve that perfect balance by playing with the bowline knot until it's perfect. The bowline puts just the right amount of spring tension on the stays to keep everything nice and stiff.

[kadet]

How long are your baby stays? As noted a few posts above, I'm trying to figure out why mine are always slack when raising/lowering the mast...

I use a dinghy vang so any length I want I had the original one with snap hooks and found it to be too loose. I am now going to two vangs so I can tension both sides independanly before raising. Because I have an aluminum foil furler I had found it very difficult to attach the starboard baby stay as the stay was difficult to lift under the foil. I normally use a turnbuckle to tension the stays but this added a lot of time and mucking around to the rigging process so I was trying not to use it to save time. Well that worked NOT

[DaveC426913]

I guess y'all are riding 's?

My has fixed length baby stays that attach to a bolt through the mast and down to two fixed slots on the deck. There is virtually no way to adjust them. And no real reason to.

[Highlander]

I guess y'all are riding 's?

My has fixed length baby stays that attach to a bolt through the mast and down to two fixed slots on the deck. There is virtually no way to adjust them. And no real reason to.

The have fixed baby stay,s just like the on the mast , but if u forget to connect one of them on either u r gonna have an issue

But that said their is an issue & flaw with the MRS system while raising the mast from 0% to approx 70% the baby stays do "Sh_T" until they start too shorten up so in the mean time if the mast should sway for what ever reason whether waves on the water or wind on the dry ramp the mast can easily sway 3-4 ft on either side of center which will bend the flimsy MRS pole base brkts that r way too weak for which they were designed for
So I added baby stays to the top of the MRS pole , but if the mast starts too sway for what ever reason the MRS S/S base brkts just bend like "Butter"
So I,ll design stronger MRS pole base Brkt,s & maybe even add a thicker wall thickness MRS pole
The system was designed for hank - on sail,s "with-out Furler" & even then is precarious & should have been totally redesigned & strengthened for using a Furling System

Just Sayin Thats All
The system is OK for for raising the mast " Hank On Sail,s" on the hard or on the water with totally no wind & water as smooth as a Baby,s Butt . As seen on the Promo Vids . Which is "Totally Unrealistic" in real life !!

J

[KootsChewt]

I guess y'all are riding 's?

My has fixed length baby stays that attach to a bolt through the mast and down to two fixed slots on the deck. There is virtually no way to adjust them. And no real reason to.

The have fixed baby stay,s just like the on the mast , but if u forget to connect one of them on either u r gonna have an issue

But that said their is an issue & flaw with the MRS system while raising the mast from 0% to approx 70% the baby stays do "Sh_T" until they start too shorten up so in the mean time if the mast should sway for what ever reason whether waves on the water or wind on the dry ramp the mast can easily sway 3-4 ft on either side of center which will bend the flimsy MRS pole base brkts that r way too weak for which they were designed for
So I added baby stays to the top of the MRS pole , but if the mast starts too sway for what ever reason the MRS S/S base brkts just bend like "Butter"
So I,ll design stronger MRS pole base Brkt,s & maybe even add a thicker wall thickness MRS pole
The system was designed for hank - on sail,s "with-out Furler" & even then is precarious & should have been totally redesigned & strengthened for using a Furling System

Just Sayin Thats All
The system is OK for for raising the mast " Hank On Sail,s" on the hard or on the water with totally no wind & water as smooth as a Baby,s Butt . As seen on the Promo Vids . Which is "Totally Unrealistic" in real life !!

J

I have definitely gotten the swaying part! Will try what BOAT suggested a few posts back and fiddle with things to get the stays almost snuggish before starting to drop my mast next time.

The second bolded part probably partially explains things though too, I have a furling genny and it is a bit on the heavy side and somewhat awkward to manage when raising the mast. In fact the bracket at the bottom of my MRS isn't quite straight, so I suspect the PO had a "mast go sideways" incident and bent it at some point. Next time I put in an order to BWY I'll be grabbing a few spare parts!! (Mast bearings, bottom base, MRS bracket... hmm what else?)

[Tomfoolery]

My has fixed length baby stays that attach to a bolt through the mast and down to two fixed slots on the deck. There is virtually no way to adjust them. And no real reason to.

My baby stays have the same stay adjusters that the shrouds have. And I've never needed to adjust them since I got this boat.

I have forgotten to attach them a couple of times, but I've always caught myself just as the mast leaves the roller, and I just put it back down and correct it. But this thread has put a bit more awareness in me, so thanks for that, OP.

I usually leave them attached when sailing, especially on a road trip (as they'll just be going back on again soon), but they have to be detached from the deck to roll the mast forward to pin to the bow rail. An improvement would be to make them longer by bolting them higher on the mast, so they can stay attached when the mast is in the roller and pinned to the bow rail. I leave the MRS fully attached when trailering, and it would be nice to leave the baby stays attached. Just one less thing to remember. Maybe when I have nothing better to do.

[Lucid]

My recent purchase mac came with MRS in pieces, pole with holes, the mast base Y bracket in a bag, 2 short stays with no snaps, and mo winch. I'd like to be able to raise solo. It seems there are 2 systems people use. As per the manual with fixed length rope from bow to top of MRS pole, or fixed length top from mast to top of MRK pole, blocks from bow to top of MRK pole and when raising the main the MRS pole pivots with the main.

I don't have the winch for the MRS pole, so I'm thinking of trying method 2......

[kadet]

Well I fixed it and added a second vang. It goes up nice and straight now and I can adjust it as it goes if needed. While I was at it I drilled a hole in the old base plate and pinned the rotating mast so it stays upright when trailering, I have now added some keel rollers on tie-down straps to support the furler.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/iaKXxN7QkcwCjl9s2

Seems to work well and takes about half the time to setup and raise the mast. The old base plate is a bit bent still and hard to line up with the deck plate but hopefully the new BWY plate will fix that.

[Ponaldpe]

I put cam cleats on the MRS so I can pull the mast back to center when raising lowering the mast.





Can't get photo to load.

[Estate Sail]

I recently helped a tattoo owner raise his mast. His baby stays were attached to the winch and not left attached to the boat. I think this is a bad idea. My baby stays are attached to the mast and stay there when the mast is up. Leaving the baby stays attached and using tie down straps to keep the winch ridged and centered make raising and lowering the mast much easier.
Roger

[KootsChewt]

How long are your baby stays? As noted a few posts above, I'm trying to figure out why mine are always slack when raising/lowering the mast...

They should be sort of floppy when the mast is in the down position but fairly tight by the time the mast is fully upright - the adjustment is accomplished by the length of the bowline you tie at the end of the line where the baby stays and winch rope connect to the mast bale.

It does not need to be like really really tight when the mast is upright, but there should be hardly no slack in the stays when the mast is in the upright position - you want the baby stays as taught as possible in the upright position that it's still easy to unscrew the baby stays from the stanchions. You can achieve that perfect balance by playing with the bowline knot until it's perfect. The bowline puts just the right amount of spring tension on the stays to keep everything nice and stiff.

Ok so I only raise/drop my mast like once per year, so I didn't get a chance to test my MRS again until I pulled the boat in October. I'm about to launch again in a few weeks and thought I'd follow up on my most recent experience. I re-tied the bowline etc so that everything was per the manual. The baby-stays did jack-s*** while dropping the mast. I'm now wondering if my baby stay wires are too long. I'd really appreciate it if someone who has a properly functioning MRS kit that came with the 26M could measure the fixed length of the baby stays.

I'm going to have an industrial shop doing some wire work for me anyways in the near future (to fix this -> viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26362), so they could fix my baby stays at the same time!

[AndyVS]

I've puckered & bent a few things when raising and lowering mast in a crosswind. The baby stays just don't keep consistent tension through the 90 degrees of rotation. I replaced the baby stay lines with the mainsheet on one side of the mast and the adjustable back stay on the other with shackles. I attach them with the cleats up high next to the mast. I have a winch on the gin pole. I raise (or lower) the mast 15 or 20 degrees, stop and adjust tension on both stays using the cleats and then continue. Keeping the tension on the stays consistent keeps the mast from swinging. If it's very windy, I'll also run a line from top of gin pole to each stanchion base to steady it. When I get stuck rigging alone, it takes a few extra minutes but no more puckering.

[BOAT]

The baby stays are loose when the mast is down for a reason. The factory made it that way because the mast plate is only supported at one end when raising the mast - if the baby stays are tight it will bend the mast plate at the bottom.

The mast plate is designed to support itself on the forward part where the factory welded a lot of supports and bends just for the purpose of taking all the downward pressure of the mast stays when the mast is up. When the mast is laying down before raising the plate does not have that support so you can't put a lot of pressure on it or the back of the plate will bend. It also makes the mast "heavier" to lift if there is a lot of static pressure on the lateral movement of the mast.

The stock setup allows the mast to swing within the limits of the mast plate long bolt and the mast rotation bearing - that swing is about 20 inches from center in either direction at the point where the mast meets the crutch.

It's normal. It does not hurt anything because that is the slop in the mast bearing and the long bolt combined. If you go over that you risk bending something at the base of the mast.

A swing of 36 inches is a bit too much - I would check the bowline knot if that is happening or perhaps some people are using longer quick release snaps at the stanchions which is OK but if those snaps are longer than the original factory screw pin shackles your baby stays are now too long and 1/2 inch length on the baby stays will add 1/2 foot of travel to the mast at the crutch.

Tom could probably do a cad drawing to get the exact calculation that shows the ratio of travel that is added for every 1/4 inch you add to the baby stays - with that you guys could better adjust your stays.

Another thing that helps is to NOT try to lift the furler with the mast for the first few feet - let the furler drag on the deck until the mast is up high enough to stop swinging (about 45 degrees) and THEN hook up whatever gadget your using to support the furler while raising the mast. (Everyone seems to use something different to support the furler when raising the mast). It's the furler that causes the most problems.

If the factory had designed the MRS WITH the furler in mind I do not think they would have used baby stays - they probably would have use one whisker pole that swung out from the MRS pole and attached to a hook on the deck on either the port or starboard side, and then the furler would have been carried aloft on the opposite side of whatever side that whisker pole was on. You only need support on ONE side if you use a pole instead of a stay. It would be a lot stronger too.

It's obvious the MRS was not designed at the time they were using the furler. Some smart entrepreneur at BWY should have come up with a new model a long time ago. What's wrong with those guys?

[Tomfoolery]

. . . if those snaps are longer than the original factory screw pin shackles your baby stays are now too long and 1/2 inch length on the baby stays will add 1/2 foot of travel to the mast at the crutch.

Tom could probably do a cad drawing to get the exact calculation that shows the ratio of travel that is added for every 1/4 inch you add to the baby stays - with that you guys could better adjust your stays.

I think that's close. A quick sketch comes up with 1/4" change in baby stay length, not counting the lash that's built in already, resulting in about 2-1/2" of movement at the tip of the mast. But I had to wing the geometry, as I don't actually know what it is. I assumed the baby stays terminate 3 ft off the boat centerline (for the , which has deck mounts inboard of the stanchions), and about 6 ft above the mast base, which I think is close as I use that termination for the flag halyards, too, and it's somewhere around face height or higher.

In my opinion, the baby stays should be just loose enough that you can make them fast with the mast in the crutch, and in my case, I usually have to bounce the mast sideways a bit to get the second one made. It takes a lot of mast movement to get a little baby stay slack. The bottom terminations should be just a little forward of the mast hinge centerline, so they slacken a little as the mast approaches vertical and the stays take over and hold the mast centered. If they're too tight with the mast up, you can't get them off, but the system uses a hound which I suppose can rotate downward once the MRS is released, so maybe that's already built into the system.

The baby stays on the terminate directly on the mast with the same tangs the regular side stays use, so some slack has to be incorporated with the mast up, if you want to remove them. I often just leave them, but sometimes remove them from the deck mount (takes seconds) and strap them to the mast, especially if the boat will be in a slip for a long time rather than on a road trip.



Edit: Corrected the sketch, as the mast was drawn 2 ft short. Mast tip lateral movement is more like 2-3/4" [70 mm] for each 1/4" [6.4 mm] of baby stay length change. About 11:1, at least per my educated guess of the geometry of the system and mast.

[BOAT]

Yeah, I forgot Tom that you have the X boat - the geometry is not at all the same - it's very different.

On the M the stay attaches at a stanchion mount that sort of replicates the elevation of the upper deck where the mast plate is. And, as you noted - there is a mast hound that puts the top of the stays forward of the stanchions. That means the stays firm up when the mast is upright but it's still easy to remove the shackles because they are held by a rope at the top - not bolted to the mast like the the X boat.

The geometry is very strange -

If I had designed the MRS I would not have used baby stays. I would have used a whisker pole that attached at the mast hound with an eyelet instead of a hound and then have the other end of the whisker pole attache to the stanchion. One pole is all that is needed - the pole would support the mast as it is raised. The pole could also be used as an emergency stay, or even a storm stay and could be easily stored on the front of the mast and if you put several eyelets along the front of the mast the pole could also be used as a spinnaker pole or even a jib sail pole. It's all just geometry. One pole could take care of all those tasks and also help support the mast in a really nasty storm. If you put an emergency eyelet on the fore deck somewhere the pole could even be used as an emergency fore-stay or a great tool to support the mast while your working on the jib or Genoa so you can unhook the furler.

I would have done it different.