Finally, a wind instrument that will work with a Mac!

[Neo]

So I gave up. I installed cheek blocks on both sides of my mast so I could lock it in place. When using AP in wind mode, I just lock the mast. Sure I lose like 1/2 a knot but when it's gusting on the Chesapeake, I'm not too concerned as I have to sail reefed most of the time anyways.

Not a bad way to fix the issue

iPad, SailTimer and Navionics all-in-one! .... OMG I can't wait to test this out https://goo.gl/UkBKPG

[kurz]

So I gave up. I installed cheek blocks on both sides of my mast so I could lock it in place. When using AP in wind mode, I just lock the mast. Sure I lose like 1/2 a knot but when it's gusting on the Chesapeake, I'm not too concerned as I have to sail reefed most of the time anyways.

Photo please!

[eodjedi]

I'm overseas right now but I'll be back on the 18th. I'll post then.

[Neo]

Ok ... Sorry to say, as beautiful as it was, the SailTimer Instrument was an unreliable, poorly supported, piece of sh~t. And the guy that runs Sailimer is arrogant asshole who was so nice .... before I paid my money ...yes both times!!.

Anyway I'm working on other solutions now and looking for thoughts feedback.
Firstly I want to display things on my iPad using applications like Wifi MID - https://itunes.apple.com/cy/app/mid-wif ... 95285?mt=8
I found a reasonable cost NEMA to Wifi adaptor made buy a small company and I got chatting to the guy that designs and builds them. He told me he had found a very good generic wind instrument and was working on an adaptor device that would output NEMA. I got very excited about having a low cost anemometer display on an iPad but then remembered the directional issue with anything mounted on a rotating Mast
So I got thinking that on an when sailing upwind, the boom just swings over to where the stanchions are (can't go much more because the Mainsheet hits the Lifelines) and the Mast follows suit. So for the most part the swing angels are wrougly known (ie. 20deg - 0deg - 20deg) and for cruising does the exact angle even matter?... So I requested if I could have a couple of offsets put into the adaptor box. Here's what he came back with ...
Definitely food for thought... I had a rotating mast on my cat so I know exactly what you mean. It requires software modification as well as hardware.
I could put 2 little tilt sensors in, one tilted to starboard and the other to port, each by say 10 degrees. The sensors are simply a binary (on or off) mercury switch of the type you'd find in a bilge pump float switch. The device would be mounted abeam and could be positioned anywhere out of the weather. When the boat is at less than 10 degrees heel then both sensors would be open circuit. When the boat heels more than 10 degrees either way then the device would detect the direction of heel apply the 20 degree offset in the appropriate direction. That would be the simplest and cheapest solution. I don't think there's any need to use an accelerometer that can sense precise heel angle. There would be no way to detect the exact angle of mast rotation in any case, and as you say it's just for cruising purposes so you don't want to invest huge dollars.

The 10 degrees of heel is arbitrary and could be adjusted by physically changing the angle of tilt of the sensors on the board. The mast rotation offset could be set initially to 20 degrees. The device already has 2 push-buttons (up and down) to tune out any misalignment of the installation. There is a reset push-button and a data LED as well, so I could incorporate a system of holding the reset button for a certain number of seconds to enter either alignment mode or rotation offset adjustment mode. The modes would be indicated by the data LED either blinking slowly or rapidly.

All this sounds great to me and I have already placed my order for the Wind Instrument he done testing with .... Does anyone else like the sound of this concept?

All the best.
Neo

[BOAT]

I too wasted my money on a "supposed" wind instrument that works on a rotating mast. In my case I got that 'Fly or Sail' Pegasus thing and it turned out to be un-reliable too. You need to calibrate the device every time you step the mast - it does not seem to remember it's calibration settings. Also - it gets lost pretty easy and seems to lose track of the mast sensor. The thing that it would do most was display all wind directions on one one side no matter what side the wind was coming from. The issue is probably related to talking with my chartplotter - it could be that the chartplotter might be part of the problem - who knows. It does not matter - the device will not provide wind direction. It did ok on wind speed - it pinned the wind just slightly slower than actual wind speed but again, that might have been the plotter trying to create an "apparent" wind speed. The wind speed is not really the important thing. The directions is.

If anyone is really good with electronics and thinks they can make the Pegasus unit work they can have mine cheap. I suppose the equipment as a regular sensor is worth 250 bucks if someone wants to use it on a fixed mast with no rotations sensor.

In the meantime - I'm looking for some one out there who might be using an ultrasonic sensor??? I would like to try one of those off the aft arch. I guess I am giving up on trying to do it on the mast.

[K9Kampers]

At the beginning of this thread nearly three years ago, BOAT summerized...

The whole point of these instruments is to hook it up to your auto pilot - THAT is why we get all excited about the indicators that work with a rotating mast.

From what I'm seeing, there's the wireless thing and the rotating mast thing. For those that want both, which is more preferred over the other? Also, how about mounting a unit on its own mast, like a Solar Stik, off the transom?

[Neo]

You need to calibrate the device every time you step the mast - it does not seem to remember it's calibration

I have a friend with the same unit and he has the same problem
I think they gone out of business now.. I emailed the guy some time back and he told me he'd build a prototype for a Wireless Instrument but due to change of lifestyle didn't have time to finish it.

From what I'm seeing, there's the wireless thing and the rotating mast thing. For those that want both, which is more preferred over the other? Also, how about mounting a unit on its own mast, like a Solar Stik, off the transom?

Yes but it's not a patch on having an instrument at the top of the Mast. It so easy to think that the wind on our face is the same up top, but it's not and that's where all the power in the sail happens.

I'm not interested in a wireless instrument (but obviously need to use Wifi for an iPad connection). But the Bluetooth (for low power consumption), Solar charging and sealed batteries all spell "Failure!" in the long run. I think it's pretty easy to run a wire through a Macgregor Mast. Hardest thing is getting the deck connector right.

Anyway my main interest here is getting your thoughts on this Low Cost, High Tech GUI... Not precise and Not perfect solution.... But just might do the job on our

[MikeFloutier]

At the beginning of this thread nearly three years ago, BOAT summerized...

The whole point of these instruments is to hook it up to your auto pilot

About this time last year, having finished my honeymoon year as a newbie sailor, I was starting to get fed up with not being able to leave the wheel of my 26M for long (specially when reefing, at the mast).

I did some research and ended up copying BOAT's amazing below-deck autopilot install which has been a joy to use, especially on long trips.

However, since I knew that the pilot had a "sail to current wind angle" function, I found it hard to resist thinking about installing a wind sensor at the masthead and linking this to the pilot.

I did this and also installed a Quark-elec AIS unit which had the added benefit of multiplexing all my boat's NMEA data, along with the AIS data, and transmitting this all to my iDevices using it's own wifi network. That unit costs £66 btw and gives AIS data on both my plotter and all iDevices.

This is all really a long winded way of saying that I have been using a normal wind sensor for a year with my autopilot with no problem.

Sure, the wind direction figures that now appear on my plotter are wrong, BUT the pilot simply doesn't care. All he looks for is the CHANGE in wind direction. Sure, whenever I tack or gybe I have to press those two buttons again, but hey...When I sailed from Falmouth to Scilly recently - 65NM overnight singlehanded - I didn't have to tack once (believe it or not).

If you're a perfectionist then you'll probably hate it but, it works fine for me

[Neo]

Sounds awesome ... Thanks for sharing that

[BOAT]

MikeFloutier,

I always read your posts – you hardly EVER post on this site – yet every post you make is brilliant. I wish you would post more often.

Never in a millions years would I have thought to just mount a wind sensor and just ignore the rotation. Your idea is brilliant, but unfortunately, I am not.

I do okay with mechanical engineering but when it comes to electronics I’m not too good – I do not know what a “multiplexer” is.

I would like to try your method – I already have the wire in the mast for the Pegasus unit – do you think I could reuse that wire to mount a new sensor? I think having AIS is a GREAT idea – on my last trip to Catalina I passed THREE oil tankers! (Back in the 70’s I would have NEVER even seen a cargo ship out there!) So I think I need AIS more than I thought.

Does the “QUARK” make the AIS show up on the plotter, or does it show up on the ipad? How does that work? Is there a place I should go in the internet to learn about it?

Thanks for the post and any help.

[MikeFloutier]

Hi BOAT, many thanks, I'm a bit lazy and only really post on something that affects me; will try to keep in touch more.

1. Ignoring the mast rotation works for me BUT not for all, e.g. if you want the True Wind deduced for live route planning.

2. Multiplexing, in this context, relates to the streaming of NMEA0183 data. The NMEA0183 is multi-talker/single-listener thing. If you subject a listener to more than one talker you get the likelihood that the sentences get garbled/mixed and thus become indecipherable to the listener. A multiplexer (somehow) manages to recognise proper sentences, mixed up though they may be, re-assembles them and then transmits them discretely, in a single coherent stream to however many listeners (usually a max of 4) there may be connected.

The Quark-elec QK-A024 (AIS device) does this and much more.

3. I used a NASA Clipper Tactical Wind sensor at the masthead. It outputs a NMEA0183 "MWV" sentence and needs 3 wires - although, if you already have power (it needs 12v, 9mA) at the masthead, you may get way with just the single NMEA0183 wire (if that's all you have).

4. Yes AIS is great. I got it for my Falmouth to Scilly trip as I knew I would be crossing the Lands End Traffic Separation Scheme twice in the dark. I've been surprised at quite how many yachts, often small ones, are transmitting AIS data.

5. The Quark-elec site is at - https://www.quark-elec.com/product-category/marine/.

As you can see, the QK-A024:

a) Receives AIS data
b) Receives NMEA data (I take a stream from my plotter (it also has a multiplexer) as this contains all the plotter's GPS data plus anything else I've fed it, e.g. sonar data
c) Multiplexes incoming NMEA data (as mentioned)
d) Has an internal wi-fi access point that can be used by up to 4 iDevices simultaneously.
e) The multiplexed NMEA0183 stream is then available as a direct NMEA0183 connection OR via the wi-fi
f) Also outputs NMEA data via USB and RS422 for your laptop etc.
g) Oh, and it receives AIS data on the two channels simultaneously, unlike some that hop.

NB note that you may need their Garmin Bridge product if connecting the NMEA out to a Garmin plotter, as I did. It cost £15.59

To answer your question about getting AIS data on iDevices and your chart-plotter, as you can see thats a normal job of the unit. It's done simultaneously so you get AIS data, in useful form, along with visual and audible alerts, both upstairs and downstairs.

Like any NMEA0183 installation there is often some juggling needed in the wiring department. A common manufacturer's reply to a technical query is "try swapping the "+" & "-" wires and see if that helps. It's not so much "plug and play", more like "suck it and see"
But once it's working…..

The only downside is that you have to tailor your alerts thoughtfully. You will find yourself at the mast, getting on with whatever and something will start bleeping. You'll be wondering; is that??:

1. Shallow water alarm,
2. Low battery alert,
3. Anchor drag alarm,
4. Dangerous AIS target
5. Autopilot ram motor about to burn out.
6. Engine overheat

[KootsChewt]

snip
Sure, the wind direction figures that now appear on my plotter are wrong, BUT the pilot simply doesn't care. All he looks for is the CHANGE in wind direction. Sure, whenever I tack or gybe I have to press those two buttons again, but hey...When I sailed from Falmouth to Scilly recently - 65NM overnight singlehanded - I didn't have to tack once (believe it or not).
end snip

Now that you mention it, in my two seasons on my I've noticed that the rotating mast is either fully on one side of the boat or the other - it is rarely in between. I'm interested in a wind sensor for the information on both speed and wind angle to assist us with learning to steer manually - but thinking about it the same way, and assuming the mast really doesn't change angle of rotation unless tacking, I could probably just mount one, and empirically figure out what the angle would be at either extreme of rotation on the display by using a protractor to measure the mast rotation and adding that on (either in my head, or maybe adding new index markers).

Actually that makes me think of something off-topic - has anyone mounted up a mast rotation control system? Some of the Farrier trimarans seem to have this option.

[BOAT]

Hi BOAT, many thanks, I'm a bit lazy and only really post on something that affects me; will try to keep in touch more.

1. Ignoring the mast rotation works for me BUT not for all, e.g. if you want the True Wind deduced for live route planning.

2. Multiplexing, in this cont . . . . . .

Mike,

Thanks greatly, their website allows me to buy direct - that's great -

I will try to put together a system with this stuff - my only real difference is that I am thinking of an ultrasonic sensor on top of the mast so that I do not need to remove it every time I trailer the boat.

As for the autopilot - I have made a few modifications that I will post soon with pictures - I got a cheap rudder position sensor from China and mounted it on the pilot so now I know where the pilot arm is at all times and this helps me when re-engaging the pilot - sometimes when I drop the arm onto the rudder I miss and I need to hunt around with the wheel to find the pilot arm ball but with the sensor on the pilot arm it tells me exactly where the pilot arm is at all times so it's easy to re-engage if I accidentally disengaged the pilot a little bit to starboard or port. (I try to always disengage exactly at midships but sometimes I forget.) With the sensor I can use the buttons on the pilot head to reset the arm back to center OR use the indicator to just line up the rudder to the position the pilot is in.

[kurz]

Wow interestet in your new AP-upgrades.

Finally I ended in putting the AP tiller in park position (I put the AP ram completely in), when I use the motor linked on. Sometimes the rudder tubes can hit the AP ram and moves around.
Tu connect the AP tiller I put it with the display to the exact position using the minus button. But of course, I have no real control where it is really...

[BOAT]

Wow interestet in your new AP-upgrades.

Finally I ended in putting the AP tiller in park position (I put the AP ram completely in), when I use the motor linked on. Sometimes the rudder tubes can hit the AP ram and moves around.
Tu connect the AP tiller I put it with the display to the exact position using the minus button. But of course, I have no real control where it is really...

yeah, I had a similar thing happen - I dropped the piston and missed the socket by about 2 inches but I was heeled over so much I could not feel it in the wheel - it's really strange how everything feels different at 45 degrees - anyways I was turning the wheel back and forth not knowing each time I turned the wheel to port I was hammering the piston into the hydraulic cylinder so now the ball was not amid ships anymore but somewhere closer to 1/4 port rudder and I had to look under the cockpit to see where that dang thing was! In most cases I can just hold the -10 button until the piston bottoms out and then hit the +10 button 15 times and that puts the ball in the middle but it's a real hassle at 45 degrees and your in a hurry to get the AP engaged so you can go forward to reef the main.

With the indicator I can just see where the ball is and if it's not amidships I can use the -1 and +1 buttons to put it right in the center.

I will get some pictures posted. Right now I am trying to get a damn wind instrument to work on 'boat'.

Based on the info from MikeFloutier I think this is what I need?



and this:



and this:



? I think ?? I hope I got it right ?