Did anyone tried an electric outboard?

[Alexis]

Hello,

I am wondering if anyone here ever tried an electric outboard?

I am dreaming about absolute silence of operations, and not polluting the lake where I sail. Plus, I can see a an advantage with the weight distribution. The cons are obviously top speed and autonomy, but I am already using a smaller engine and I am fine with that.

What are your thoughts?

[Russ]

I think it's doable. But don't you have an X?

The con side is low power in heavy winds and lack of distance. I've seen people use them on boats to get in/out of marina.

Not sure I'd buy a POWER sailor and not power it fully. But hey, it's your boat. Stick one on and see how it works for ya.

--Russ

[K9Kampers]

As an owner, I could care less about silence, pollution, top speed, or autonomy. Considering were I sail / have sailed, my greatest concern would be thrust capability against strong currents such as Woods Hole or Pisquatica River.

I rarely run at WOT, and don't consider upsizing beyond mfgs specs for additional power.

Alternative power OB sources pique my curiousity, but haven't committed me to them for my needs yet.

[1st Sail]

I think it would be doable if you can return to safety when needed. If not you just limited your sailing days. Of course there is always the rhetorical dilemma of true effective energy savings. An electric motor would certainly remove local lake pollution from a combustion engine to a power plant located somewhere else. Then of course how is the power generated that charges your batteries. Solar mounted on the boat? Wind driven, combustion (natural gas/coal fired), solar etc. ?

I have been curious for some time as to how much pollution and corresponding energy is consumed in the production of specialized environmentally responsible alternative energy sources i.e lithium batteries, solar panels etc. What is the net energy and pollution recovered in the manufacturing process and subsequent operating life of replacement energy source? There is no question in my mind that we absolutely need to recognize the global effect of energy production via combustible sources and continue developing noncombustible energy sources.

[Stevenhigbee]

I am dreaming about absolute silence of operations, and not polluting the lake where I sail. Plus,

That's what the sail is for.

[dlandersson]

There are several youtube videos of Mac's with electric outboards (mine-kota's) for getting in and out of the marina.

Isn't the sail the point of "silent operation"?

Hello,

I am wondering if anyone here ever tried an electric outboard?

I am dreaming about absolute silence of operations, and not polluting the lake where I sail. Plus, I can see a an advantage with the weight distribution. The cons are obviously top speed and autonomy, but I am already using a smaller engine and I am fine with that.

What are your thoughts?

[Alexis]

Hello,

Lots of good comments here! I am guessing that it is a hot topic!

Of course the sail is already there to provide an absolute silence of operation. Electric propulsion should be seen mostly as a way to get in and out the marina elegantly, in my case I sail on a lake and dock my boat in a marina where there are almost exclusively sailboats.

Thrust should not be a problem because electric engines are supposed to always have an optimal torque, even at low speed. They are a capable technology, but of course considering the limit of your needs. In my case for example, I have a 9.9hp and I am considering going up to 20hp. I won’t need and don’t want to handle anything bigger. Being on a lake, I have no current to go against (there is no place where I could sail which has a strong current 2,000 miles around).

The lack of distance may be an issue, though. My sail pattern would accommodate recharging the batteries at night, as I come back to the marina every night. Should I decide to spend the night on the lake I guess I would use a solar panel to gain a few watts when anchored. @1st Sail: you are making a statement when you’re saying that a battery shouldn’t be limited to sailing days, and should have a reserve of energy to get you to the shore. I would answer that everything is in the calculation of how many batteries you would need to power the engine.

About the argument that the pollution is only pushed away at the battery production plant and the power generation stage: this is a valid argument (which is exactly what you would say about a Tesla car by the way) but if you are responsible when you make your purchase you should buy a product which has been produced with a higher ecological consciousness (i.e. a North American or a European brand). You are also supposed to be responsible when recycling the batteries.

The main issue remains the cost of the technology, especially compared with how simple this technology is. Prices are outrageous and may be the only reason I probably won’t decide to go that way…
It would be a trade-off obviously, but at least my old 2-stroke wouldn’t sneeze out its dirty oil in the lake anymore...

[Russ]

A couple of points.

Electric motors are full torque but sill are limited to full torque which isn't comparable to gasoline power. Honestly, if you have an X (powersailor) I'd only repower with a minimum of 50hp. Probably not that much more expensive. And how do you empty ballast if you can't get up on plane? Otherwise, why own a POWER sailor. But to each his own.

Wind is the biggie for me. We get nasty T-storms and the ability to high tail it back when things get rough or at least have power against the wind/waves is great. I rarely run full throttle, but it's nice to have the extra power there.

Modern engines are VERY clean burning. The modern 2-stroke e-Tecs are engineering marvels. They run cleaner than some 4 strokes and are California EPA compliant. Pollution of a modern motor isn't a big concern.
The appeal of electric power is that they are extremely efficient. Sure, you need to generate the electricity with hydrocarbons, but most of the consumed power isn't going out the exhaust. Storage of energy has always been the hard part.

Recharging from dockside is fine. Recharging from solar is difficult.
You should read Sumners page on electric power. He did quite a bit of research and testing and decked out his boat with lots of solar.

http://1fatgmc.com/boat/mac-1/mac-outsi ... age-1.html

--Russ

[Alexis]

Honestly, if you have an X (powersailor) I'd only repower with a minimum of 50hp. Probably not that much more expensive. And how do you empty ballast if you can't get up on plane? Otherwise, why own a POWER sailor. But to each his own.

Thanks, Russ. Lots of very good points to think about...

To answer your comment above: my reasons for having an X are: cabin volume, trailerability and lauchability, ease of maintenance, availability on the second hand market in Saskatchewan. The X was my only option, and fortunately I am happy with it. I purchased the boat with an old 9.9 which does the job.

Regarding the engine, I would like to have something very easy to maintain, and light enough so I can take the engine away myself to bring it to the dealer or to store it. Our winters are long and very rough (can go down to -50 C).

[Russ]

To answer your comment above: my reasons for having an X are: cabin volume, trailerability and lauchability, ease of maintenance, availability on the second hand market in Saskatchewan. The X was my only option, and fortunately I am happy with it. I purchased the boat with an old 9.9 which does the job.

Indeed. The Mac X/M are probably the roomiest cabins in any trailer sailor. So your reasons are quite valid. One of the best boats for this purpose.

Regarding the engine, I would like to have something very easy to maintain, and light enough so I can take the engine away myself to bring it to the dealer or to store it. Our winters are long and very rough (can go down to -50 C).

I wouldn't be afraid of motor maintenance. Our winters are long. Not quite as cold, but we do get to -35 C often. Temps don't matter much past freezing unless you plan on operating the boat in those temps. End of season, I change oil and drop motor down to drain. That's it. Wait for spring.

I do ALL my own maintenance because the nearest Suzuki dealer is 500 miles away. There really isn't much maintenance either. Change oil, filters. The hardest part was the water pump impeller. But even that isn't hard to do and I'm no mechanic. My boat/engine is 10 years old and has never seen a dealer. Like I said, modern engines are clean running and very reliable. Oh, I changed plugs once. Easy peezy.

Your electric motor idea isn't bad. Cost isn't that much if it doesn't work as you hope. Why not.

--Russ

[kurz]

Modern engines are VERY clean burning. Pollution of a modern motor isn't a big concern.

I hope you are right... BUT I guess no outboard has ever seen a catalysator. In comparison all car engines use catalysators to reduce pollution.

[dlandersson]

I have an X. My "to-do" list includes and auxiliary electric outboard (mine-kota) specifically for entering and leaving the marina. Plan to mount it on the left rear. Do I need it? No. But it's more cost effective than using my 50HP.

Honestly, if you have an X (powersailor) I'd only repower with a minimum of 50hp. Probably not that much more expensive. And how do you empty ballast if you can't get up on plane? Otherwise, why own a POWER sailor.

http://1fatgmc.com/boat/mac-1/mac-outsi ... age-1.html

--Russ

[KootsChewt]

I've owned an M for 2 seasons now. I definitely understand the OP's desire to get an electric outboard, and I have done some research myself. My reasons for wanting one included:
- My boat came with a 20hp motor bolted through the transom; couple this with living in a townhouse and storing my boat in a storage yard each winter, I don't have an easy way of maintaining the motor myself, and don't like paying a lot of money for the local shop to do it for me.
- In the summer we often have light winds on our lake, so light that we end up motoring along at ~ 4 kn for hours at a time when we are trying to get to our next anchorage. The silence of an electric motor would be SO appreciated in these circumstances!
- I really have an intense dislike of burning gasoline/oil etc (pollution, proxy wars, etc). I have owned an electric car for over 4 years now, and all of my future purchases will be electric where-ever possible.
- Almost all electricity locally is from hydro electric; my car is on the "100 mile diet" and I'd like my boat to be too.

Limitations as noted below really boil down to ability to recharge it and required range. Due to the size of our boats, you really need something equivalent to at least 5 hp, preferably 8 hp (e.g. a Torqeedo Cruise 2, or even a 4; see http://www.psychosnail.com/boatspeedcalculator.aspx). What I have thought of to solve these quandaries thus far:
- My boat is moored a few hundred yards from shore. I (obviously) can't run an extension cord, so I would be limited to ferrying lithium ion batteries back and forth in my rowboat to shore (plus carting them several hundred yards to my house, up a bank and over some train tracks) in order to charge them at my house. This means you need to have a reasonably light battery (high energy density), and sacrifice some autonomy. OR, you can plan to keep most (all?) of the batteries on the boat, and slowly recharge them in between sails with solar power.
- For range, speed of travel really increases the amount of power required (doubling speed requires something like triple the power). Input power to travel at ~3 kn is estimated at around 200W for such a motor - so having a solar panel hooked up on a sunny windless day (when I usually fire up the motor) would extend my range substantially.

I concluded that I wouldn't really be able to reasonably re-power my boat with an electric motor due to the long transit distances we have sometimes covered the past two summers (up to 15-20 nautical miles); both too expensive to buy enough batteries, and impractical to mount enough solar power to recharge my batteries fully in a day or two (after doing a long trip, this would have required something on the order of 350W to replenish 5.5 kWh in two sunny days).

Instead what I am planning to do in either 2019 or 2020 is to purchase a Torqeedo Travel 1003C, which is rated at 3 hp, and mount it on an auxiliary bracket beside my 20 hp. I will hook it into my existing 100W solar panel (which is over-sized for my cabin loads at the moment) and test out range and power for a few seasons while waiting for the price of the 26-104 (or equivalent Torqeedo battery pack) to come down substantially. The 1003C is really a much better deal in Canada; $2500 for 3hp motor plus 900 Wh battery, rather than $4000 for the Cruise 2.0R and another $2600 for the 26-104 battery with 2600 Wh of storage.

(In regards to an earlier question on how to drain the ballast tank; I don't during the sailing season, I just check the level periodically. At the end of the season, I put the boat on the trailer, open the vent hole and gate valve, and pull the trailer just far enough to start draining water, then I wait a few minutes at the ramp for it to empty.)

[Starscream]

I have owned an electric car for over 4 years now, and all of my future purchases will be electric where-ever possible.

I haven't tried an electric outboard, but I would like to once I (finally) have the solar up and running. I'd mount it beside the gas motor, as others have suggested.

However, I'm with you on the electric vehicle and appliances. I bought a Ford Fusion Energi five months ago and have just passed 5,000 miles on the odometer, with a TOTAL fuel burn of 6 gallons. I just went to the gas station with it for the first time since May 24th. That's almost 850mpg mpg so far, and loving it. Super-quiet, and with the gas-engine backup, zero range anxiety. I look at it kind of like a sailboat amidst powerboats...requires a bit more planning to take full advantage of its characteristics, no one understands why you bother, but still very satisfying. Especially satisfying knowing that my electricity is local hydro power, and my "fuel" dollars stay local. More than half of oil and gas revenue here in Canada goes overseas, so I am happy reduce my contributions to that.

The car follows my E-GO battery powered lawn mower and E-GO battery powered snow-blower, two of the best purchases I ever made. So quiet, perfectly powerful, plenty of juice to mow 8,000 sq.ft of lawn and snow-blow a fairly big driveway. It sounds a bit like I am preaching from a high-horse, but it seems so bizarre to me that I used to have to mow my lawn while standing in clouds of 2-stroke carbon monoxide while generating 100 decibels for the neighbors to enjoy.

[45Plus+]

I have been wondering about an electric outboard as a back up should the ol fossil fuel plant fail. It would be nice to get to the side of the river or even to a dock. I am a mechanical engineer and believe in redundancy and safety factors. Relying on one motor in potentially perilous situations runs counter to my thinking. Before anyone comments about my car not having two motors, at least I can call the auto club to come and get it relatively quickly....

Given the weight of the boat, what would be the minimum viable electric if cruising is not a concern. would I have to upgrade my two onboard batteries?