Slack in Helm Linkage 26m is this normal?

[The Tempest]

Enormous slack in steering on 26M. Is it normal to have to move the helm 90 degrees, back and forth to steer while underway?

The motor is synced and linked tightly to the helm, and mimics immediate helm movements. This issue is that the boat does not respond without exaggerated engine/prop swings. This is problematic when navigating tightly into slips and through marinas. Add a little wind and its a real nail-biting nightmare. But even without the tight navigation, on relative calm waters I just want to know if it is normal to move the helm, motor and prop so far back and forth to maintain course.

I'm self-taught, but I have repeatedly read and reread the process for motoring into slips and it's just not getting better. I've tried with the rudders and keel up and with them down, heavy and light load and myriad combinations. With and without wind. I usually have a mate on the bow with a long pole as a precaution. I have nearly hit other boats on numerous occasions.

By now you are probably laughing at me or at least rolling your eyes. So after you pick yourself up off the floor, just know I am a pretty handy and adventurous type; I have great spatial acuity, can tear apart and repair engines, telescopes, computers and trailer bearings and run a pretty mean 10K for a 59 year old. I fly drones and don't get in car accidents, but this lovely 26M is making me crazy.

So, is it me, is it the load in the boat, what...

26M with Nissan 2 Stroke 50HP outboard

[Jimmyt]

Enormous slack in steering on 26M. Is it normal to have to move the helm 90 degrees, back and forth to steer while underway?

The motor is synced and linked tightly to the helm, and mimics immediate helm movements. This issue is that the boat does not respond without exaggerated engine/prop swings. This is problematic when navigating tightly into slips and through marinas. Add a little wind and its a real nail-biting nightmare. But even without the tight navigation, on relative calm waters I just want to know if it is normal to move the helm, motor and prop so far back and forth to maintain course.

I'm self-taught, but I have repeatedly read and reread the process for motoring into slips and it's just not getting better. I've tried with the rudders and keel up and with them down, heavy and light load and myriad combinations. With and without wind. I usually have a mate on the bow with a long pole as a precaution. I have nearly hit other boats on numerous occasions.

By now you are probably laughing at me or at least rolling your eyes. So after you pick yourself up off the floor, just know I am a pretty handy and adventurous type; I have great spatial acuity, can tear apart and repair engines, telescopes, computers and trailer bearings and run a pretty mean 10K for a 59 year old. I fly drones and don't get in car accidents, but this lovely 26M is making me crazy.

So, is it me, is it the load in the boat, what...

26M with Nissan 2 Stroke 50HP outboard

Good looking boat!

You need to determine if you are talking about slack, or lack of responsiveness. Trying to maneuver a high windage vessel using rear thrust only, Is a challenge. It is very likely that you are having to turn the wheel significantly to get enough side thrust to overwhelm the windage effect. It will be even worse if you don't have any dagger board down. Mind your depth though - don't want to break a dagger.

Nope - we're laughing with you! It will steer better at low speed with some dagger board down and rudders down. If I have to maneuver in tight quarters, I put some dagger board down, leave the rudders up, and drive in reverse. This is the most control I've been able to achieve at low speed. The motor thrust moves the stern, and the dagger causes the rest of the boat to generally follow it.

Check your rudder linkage (back of the aft berth) to verify all of the linkage is tight. Several of the bolts in mine were loose and allowed excess slop in rudder linkage.

There is a speed that mine waddles like a duck. Faster, or slower than that speed is ok. Find that speed and avoid it.

Windage: Remember all that interior room you fell in love with? Windage is the price you pay. We can all tell you a strong cross-wind docking, or trailer approach story that would curl your hair. And, you can't reverse onto the trailer. My solution is to approach a spot that I can gracefully land - given the wind direction. Then, walk the boat where it needs to go using the dock lines. Calm conditions are not usually a problem.

I almost took out a line of slipped power boats, and nearly destroyed both rudders on my first heavy cross wind trailer load.

You'll get the hang of it.

[Russ]

I have found I need ALL FINS down. You say motor is connected to steering. Is there slop when you turn the wheel until you see the motor/rudders turn?

I have also found that unlike keel boats where slow and steady is the way, this boat needs a bit of speed to have the rudders do anything and the dagger have a "bite". Not crazy speed, but if I'm barely moving, the wind dominates.

[pitchpolehobie]

26X owner here, think I need to rename her "Bumper Car." Similar issues So a few points.

Does your wheel turn the steering as it is supposed to? My original rack and pinion steering had corroded and I was having to pull the wheel before it would engage about 20-30 degrees. Also it required a 2 handed effort. I didn't realize how bad this was until trying another 26x owners boat - I prev used tillers. Anyway new rack and pinion installed from bwyachts made a huge difference. Can u get a video of what you're experiencing?


I have also had issues with the 26x having high freeboard. I only dock in my marina w the centerboard and rudders down. I have started to reverse in also as it controls a bit easier. Make sure you use thrust. When the Mac doesn't have thrust momentum and wind take it away. Just be ready to throttle the other way to slow down at the end of your docking.

[The Tempest]

I'll check the rudder and response and its linkage. Regarding the engine, I am aware that the linkage will not turn the engine as far on one side as the other, but there is still good overall side to side radius of movement. I don't perceive that having the prop and engine perpendicular to the stern is possible or even necessary, so I haven't sweated the difference in the movement from side to side.

BTW I appreciate how all you commentators are gracious with your responses. I love the utility of the 26M, I'm just trying to laugh at this all and not be too uptight about the learning curve. I am enjoying this awesome vessel with my family.

[Highlander]

Mine got gradualy so bad I,d b turning the wheel a half turn each way before I got any response so decided I better check it out before something drastic happens , discovered all the play was in the cable & poss helm gear , done some reseach on hear & ordered a high performance steering cable from BWY as the helm gear did not look that bad so thought I,d replace the cable first as that seem to b where most of the play was coming from , installed new high performance steering cable Whoa ! zero play now , the steering always had about 2" of free play when the boat was new & just gradually got worse I do have the bigger Ida Sailor rudders so likey put more stress on the old cheaper cable , anyways I,d definately recommend the high performance steering cable from BWY

J

[45Plus+]

Hi Tempest and all

Just got my new-to-me 2011 26M out today with mast down, full ballast, low wind, 6 inch waves and had the same trouble as you. I seemed to have to swing the wheel 90 degrees or more even when trying to anticipate which way the boat would try to go as we motored along at around 5-6 mph. There was zero sensation of steering tension in that 90 degree correction. It was pretty exhausting and the boat never seemed to settle down or track well even when I put the rudders down...and up ... to see what difference that made. I did not try the centreboard though that was next before a mysterious "check engine" beep started from the Suzuki 60 (!?!) and that ended the cruise. I checked the linkages under the cockpit floor and it all seems tight - so is the slack in the pedestal somewhere (??). if so perhaps the BWY kit Highlander mentioned might be a solution. I Hopefully that does not require major surgery! Wish BWY had a Canadian outlet as those cross border fees are killing me....

[BOAT]

Mine got gradualy so bad I,d b turning the wheel a half turn each way before I got any response so decided I better check it out before something drastic happens , discovered all the play was in the cable & poss helm gear , done some reseach on hear & ordered a high performance steering cable from BWY as the helm gear did not look that bad so thought I,d replace the cable first as that seem to b where most of the play was coming from , installed new high performance steering cable Whoa ! zero play now , the steering always had about 2" of free play when the boat was new & just gradually got worse I do have the bigger Ida Sailor rudders so likey put more stress on the old cheaper cable , anyways I,d definately recommend the high performance steering cable from BWY

J

John,

Was the performance cable hard to install? Can you comment on the difficulty of the installation? I have a little under 2 inch slop and it would be nice to reduce it.

[Highlander]

Mine got gradualy so bad I,d b turning the wheel a half turn each way before I got any response so decided I better check it out before something drastic happens , discovered all the play was in the cable & poss helm gear , done some reseach on hear & ordered a high performance steering cable from BWY as the helm gear did not look that bad so thought I,d replace the cable first as that seem to b where most of the play was coming from , installed new high performance steering cable Whoa ! zero play now , the steering always had about 2" of free play when the boat was new & just gradually got worse I do have the bigger Ida Sailor rudders so likey put more stress on the old cheaper cable , anyways I,d definately recommend the high performance steering cable from BWY

J

John,

Was the performance cable hard to install? Can you comment on the difficulty of the installation? I have a little under 2 inch slop and it would be nice to reduce it.

Hi Boat
the high performance cable is designed for bigger engine,s & way more stress so is away better quality , I tried tightening up all the slack joints & connections & even bushing or sleeving some made no difference , so determined it had to b in either the steering hub gear pinion or the cable rack gear track , rather than replacing both i tried
replacing the steering cable first with the High performance cable & bingo zero play

but each own circumstances might b diff., but worked for me , I have the Ida Sailor racing rudders they r alot bigger" longer & wider" & put a lot more stress on the steering gear & rudder brackets
hope this helps u out
it is the same as replacing the original steering cable can,t remember if it was slightly thicker , but it was an straight replace without any mods all end fittings r exactly the same being slightly thicker cable it was a little more harder to bend into position so may b easier on a warm day
J

[BOAT]

Mine got gradualy so bad I,d b turning the wheel a half turn each way before I got any response so decided I better check it out before something drastic happens , discovered all the play was in the cable & poss helm gear , done some reseach on hear & ordered a high performance steering cable from BWY as the helm gear did not look that bad so thought I,d replace the cable first as that seem to b where most of the play was coming from , installed new high performance steering cable Whoa ! zero play now , the steering always had about 2" of free play when the boat was new & just gradually got worse I do have the bigger Ida Sailor rudders so likey put more stress on the old cheaper cable , anyways I,d definately recommend the high performance steering cable from BWY

J

John,

Was the performance cable hard to install? Can you comment on the difficulty of the installation? I have a little under 2 inch slop and it would be nice to reduce it.

Hi Boat
the high performance cable is designed for bigger engine,s & way more stress so is away better quality , I tried tightening up all the slack joints & connections & even bushing or sleeving some made no difference , so determined it had to b in either the steering hub gear pinion or the cable rack gear track , rather than replacing both i tried
replacing the steering cable first with the High performance cable & bingo zero play

but each own circumstances might b diff., but worked for me , I have the Ida Sailor racing rudders they r alot bigger" longer & wider" & put a lot more stress on the steering gear & rudder brackets
hope this helps u out
it is the same as replacing the original steering cable can,t remember if it was slightly thicker , but it was an straight replace without any mods all end fittings r exactly the same being slightly thicker cable it was a little more harder to bend into position so may b easier on a warm day
J

Thanks Highlander - I don't fear getting the under deck part done - it's the innards of the pedestal I am scared of.
Is the new cable assembly installed thru the stock access hole in the side of the pedestal? I don't have to rip the entire pedestal apart to do this, right?

[Russ]

I second BOAT's question.

I think I'm going to do this upgrade. But how difficult is it? Do you have to remove the pedistal?
Or can it all be done from just removing the side panel?

[Highlander]

Boat , Russ ,

It's exactly the same size as ur old unit if u lay them side by side the only way u can tell the diff is lookin at the label it,s the internal guts guts that r way better quality & stronger I believe that,s why the cable outer casing looks a little more thicker to accommodate the stronger internal cable , also make sure u check all ur steering connections for slackness & repair these issue,s first , u do loose a little rudder sensitivity when the eng. is disconnected due to the tightened stiffness of the High performance steering cable due to zero play , u,ll have an easier time changing inside the pedestal using 1/4" smaller ratchet & sockets as the space is limited & yes u remove the old unit thru access side panel & the new one same but reverse install
also ur auto pilot works better as it now works with less slack issue,s
J

[BOAT]

Boat , Russ ,
changing inside the pedestal using 1/4" smaller ratchet & sockets as the space is limited & yes u remove the old unit thru access side panel & the new one same
J

THANKS JOHN! That's great info good to know!!

Boat , Russ ,


also ur auto pilot works better as it now works with less slack issue,s
J

Na ahh, not my pilot cuz it don't use no stinkin wheel - it's connected directly to the rudder


So, Russ, did you want me to come by your house to help you do yours after I do mine or do yours first? (Unless you want to drive up to Can-A-DUH?



JOHN !!! is this the correct part (see the part number)??

ALSO! HEY JOH! Can Russ and I come to your house for instructions if we need help??

[Russ]

So, Russ, did you want me to come by your house to help you do yours after I do mine or do yours first?

I've gotta go pull the boat out for the season next week. Gonna bring her home and put her to bed for the winter. Prolly do this in the Spring or during warm spells over the Winter.

Let me know how yours goes. Take pics.

[1st Sail]

I have the same issue on my '06 M. Approx 3-4in of free wheel before the rack an pinion engage in the turning direction. Several years ago I went thru the entire linkage. There was a fraction of slack in the tie bar to rudder arms and no slack in the steering cable to tie bar. I pulled the wheel and then the rack an pinion out of the helm. With the wheel disconnected I could manually turn the wheel shaft and determine the rack and pinion gears did not mesh close enough. You can disconnect the pinion gear housing from the rack housing however there is no way to change the clearance between the rack gear and pinion gear plate. The only thought I had was to slice open the end of the rack and pinion box and back shim the rack using a piece of greased hdpe machined to the proper thickness. I think you could shim the rack closer to the pinion gear and reduce the slack.

Otherwise just order a new one from BWY and drop it in. I also made the mistake of ordering a Uflex Rotex to replace the entire steering system. Unfortunately, the '06 helm box and steering wheel mounting angle does not allow enough room for the Rotex steering cable to exit the gear box and feed thru the helm box tube. IIRC the Uflex Rotex works very well on the X helm box and maybe the later model M with the full fiberglass helm box that goes all the way to the flow vs. the stainless pipe mounted between the cock pit floor and the helm box. Maybe this winter I will go all in and build a new helm box to accommodate the Rotex.