How much rake? ....

[Signaleer]

... is too much?


Mainsail will be about 1 foot lower on the boat.

(and yes, i think this is too much.)

Think I should sail her like this?

I will have to replace uppers and lowers for this new mast.

J24 Mast Spreaders. Mast off some catamaran.

Ed.

[Signaleer]

Actually, is this as bad as I thought?



My image is not perfect... I'm not exactly beside it.

How bad would you call this?

Ed

[Jimmyt]

http://www.ne-ts.com/mac/xx/xx-211tuning.html

Ed,
2 to 4 degrees, according to the NETS gang. Maybe some of the experienced x sailers will chime in.

You’re probably going to want to get a better setup for determining the angle before you start dialing it in.

[sailboatmike]

1 1/2 to 2 degrees I find good, however if you are a newer sailor 2 to 3 degrees which will cause the boat to round up easier if over powered. rounding up is preferable to getting knocked over and losing confidence

[Starscream]

I think the only way to really tell is to get out and sail. Then fix the rake based on weather/lee helm. My X will round up early and often in gusty winds because the rig is raked backwards kind of like yours (can't really tell from pictures...). The boat is in my driveway right now, and I just adjusted the backstay and sidestays to lessen the rake, and now I have to get out there and fix the sagging furler. Not looking forward to that, but at least the second forestay that I installed a few years ago will hold the mast up while I make the adjustments.

It's a drag to do with the roller furler, since you have to access the turnbuckle inside the drum each time you want to make an adjustment.

[tlgibson97]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the rake should be set with the angle in relation to the water. I had mine initially set referencing from the deck but my boat was very stern heavy at the time making the rake way too far aft. It wanted to round up with every puff and was a real chore to keep on track. I raked it more forward and the handling greatly improved.

[Tomfoolery]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the rake should be set with the angle in relation to the water. I had mine initially set referencing from the deck but my boat was very stern heavy at the time making the rake way too far aft.

Yeah, the manual (as it were) shows rake set to the foredeck, but that assumes a certain attitude of the hull to the water.

[Tomfoolery]

It's a drag to do with the roller furler, since you have to access the turnbuckle inside the drum each time you want to make an adjustment.

But then, the only time I've ever messed with the forestay adjustment is when I first got the boat and replaced the forestay, and then again when I wasn't happy with the rake.

My highly technical and carefully engineered procedure is to adjust the rake with the forestay first, and then the tension with the upper and lower stays. Backstay is just an afterthought, in the case of the .

[BCAnderson]

For an 81 Venture 21 would the rake be fore or aft?

[Jimmyt]

Per the manual, “ Set the mast at right angles to the waterline. ”

Welcome to the forum.

[DaveC426913]

This is something I've been seriously considering since someone in another thread brought to my attention the connection between mast rake and rounding up. I had no idea sensitivity to rounding up was something I could adjust.

I'm getting pretty confident at single-handing and it frustrates me how easily my rounds up. It takes a mere 10 knots of wind and then I can't keep her straight.

I have a real tough time attaching my forestay; it is by far the most muscle-intensive set up step - more so than raising the mast. So there's just no way I can decrease the rake without easing the shrouds to facilitate it.

My question is this: if I loosen my shrouds prior to raising my mast, then attach the forestay, then adjust the shrouds to-spec, can I expect that the shrouds will increase the rake as they're tightened?

I guess the over-arching question is: how does one actually go about reducing rake while keeping enough tension on shrouds and not too much tension of forestay?

[Jimmyt]

Tomfoolery has addressed this subject from a 26X standpoint. I believe that you describe the exact process he used. Raise the mast and determine the current rake. Then, loosen the shrouds slightly to allow tightening the forestay to achieve the proper rake. Then, tension the shrouds to the proper tension and bend. Re-check the mast rake. Lather, rinse, repeat...

If you're rounding up in a 10 knot breeze, your mast rake is not appropriate for your sail plan. Different sail plans will likely result in different mask rakes to achieve a very slight weather helm. You may have to experiment to see what rake gets you the feel you're looking for. This my be different than the 4 degrees in the manual.

Here's one snippet. There are others.
viewtopic.php?p=355383#p355383

[DaveC426913]

Tomfoolery has addressed this subject from a 26X standpoint. I believe that you describe the exact process he used. Raise the mast and determine the current rake. Then, loosen the shrouds slightly to allow tightening the forestay to achieve the proper rake. Then, tension the shrouds to the proper tension and bend. Re-check the mast rake. Lather, rinse, repeat...

How might one "tighten the forestay"? That sounds like a perma-mod..

If you're rounding up in a 10 knot breeze, your mast rake is not appropriate for your sail plan.

It's my mainsail. In 10 knots, I have to completely luff it, or over I go.

At least, I assume it's 10 knots. My yardstick is that if I'm starting to see whitecaps, then it's 10 knots or over.

[Jimmyt]

Tomfoolery has addressed this subject from a 26X standpoint. I believe that you describe the exact process he used. Raise the mast and determine the current rake. Then, loosen the shrouds slightly to allow tightening the forestay to achieve the proper rake. Then, tension the shrouds to the proper tension and bend. Re-check the mast rake. Lather, rinse, repeat...

How might one "tighten the forestay"? That sounds like a perma-mod..

If you're rounding up in a 10 knot breeze, your mast rake is not appropriate for your sail plan.

It's my mainsail. In 10 knots, I have to completely luff it, or over I go.

At least, I assume it's 10 knots. My yardstick is that if I'm starting to see whitecaps, then it's 10 knots or over.

Depends on what your forestay looks like. If you've got a Furler, there is a turnbuckle inside of the drum assembly, or nut on a threaded rod that you would tighten, or loosen, depending on which way you wanted to go. It will be at the bottom end of the forestay.

You should be able to sail in 15-17, without rounding up, using proper trim. I have a 150 Genoa, and it's not a problem. There will be significant heeling, as you approach 20 knots under full sail, depending on your relative heading.

Yes. For each sail plan, the mast rake will be a one-time process to get it set - though it may take a couple of iterations to get the feel you're looking for. That setting should be used for that particular sail plan - other than the occasional spinnaker session... which you won't adjust the rake for.

I like just a tad of 'go to weather' tendency. You don't want it to turn down, though. Neutral would probably be ok, but most don't do it that way.

[DaveC426913]

I like just a tad of 'go to weather' tendency. You don't want it to turn down, though. Neutral would probably be ok, but most don't do it that way.

I just realized that I may be confusing weather/lee helm with wheel effort.

I always tend to have lee helm - by that I mean I have to apply effort "to weather" to hold it in place**. if I let the wheel go, it will spin to lee.

** because Macs have a wheel it is opposite to a tiller. On a tiller boat, "weather helm" is to turn the tiller weatherward. On a heeled boat, "weather helm" is to turn (the top of) the wheel to leeward.


i.e So on a port tack, I have to hold the wheel to port against a starboard effort.

I've always assumed that is "lee helm", but suddenly I'm not so sure. I think it's just the weight of the o/b!

I will have to experiment to find the actual helm I have to apply. In fact, I should pull this out of this thread nd post it as its own thread.