Suzuki DF60AV or DF90A ?

[vkmaynard]

https://macgregorsailors.com/forum/view ... a&start=15

"Jason at Blue Ridge Propellers did a perfect job. I asked him to reduce the pitch by no more than 1" relative to what he measured on the current 13.75 x 15 prop. New numbers: 31 MPH steady @ 6250 RPM (0.7 MPH gain with a 350 RPM gain) and 24 MPH with ballast, not quite as steady @ 5600 RPM (0.7 MPH gain with a 350 RPM gain). I am very happy with the numbers considering that max WOT is 6300 and max HP is 5800. This is as good as it will probably get except for a possible small improvement in performance after full break-in."

Victor

[NiceAft]

The Suzuki dealer just called me and said they will have my motor in March for April installation before the season begins. And, it's white! Awesome. I had them add the trolling controls that allow press-of-the-button increments of + or - 50 RPM for precise tuning that will help optimize long distance fuel economy. Even better, they had offered me a $500 discount if they could do the work in April, so there's another bonus!

Still no good idea on the prop, other than the Solas 13.75x15 4 blade that was recommended on FB.

Sweet

You are going to have one heck of a terrific boating season. You will make Canadian TV News broadcast. “Who is the captain of that speeding sailboat ”

[Starscream]

Thanks guys,

Victor, I remember your original post from way back when, and the repitching procedure. I remember considering the DF90A because of it. I have the Solas 13.75 X 15 4-blade on order, and I'm glad to have more than one data point confirming it. Don't know if the dealer can repitch it or not, or if it's worth it to ask for that right away.

How's the DF90A sound at hull speed?

[vkmaynard]

Any prop repair shop can re-pitch your prop.

Blue Ridge Propellers is still in business. The guy is a real artisan. https://www.brpdynamics.com/

Our boat is has been SUPER fun since we added the DF90A. Ask our kids or anyone that has done this if they would go back to a lower horsepower.

Let us know how it works out.

Thanks,

Victor

[Starscream]

We removed the Etec90HP in preparation for the DF90A, which has arrived at the marina.

On first glance, the transom looked pretty bad, with lots of obvious cracking. After a couple of minutes with a dremel sanding disk, it's clear that the cracks are in the gelcoat only, with the fiberglass underneath being in perfect condition. I removed the cracked gelcoat and replaced with silica-thickened epoxy. Will sand and paint the repair later today.

Overall I'm very impressed with how the transom has stood up over the last 10 years of 90-horsing around. It actually set my mind at rest with the decision to stay at 90HP for the re-power.

I mixed a little too much epoxy in a small 50ml cup, and ended up with a smoking ball of epoxy resin melting through the cup. Gotta be careful with those exothermal reactions. It wasn't enough epoxy to actually ignite, but it was smokin' hot.

Some photos during the sanding process:

[Starscream]

The DF90A is mounted and the boat is back in my driveway. It looks like the shop did a very clean job on the physical install. We replaced the plastic filler peice below the transom lip with two aluminum plates of the same thickness, and over the top of those we mounted another aluminum plate which is bent 90 degrees over the transom lip.


With regards to the strutural integrity, the installer told me that they have often installed higher horsepower motors on flimsier transoms. They were impressed with how solid the 26X transom actually is. It really looked good, aside from the gelcoat cracks, which were completely repaired during the install.

The stock boarding ladder just clears the side of the motor, so that's good.

The dealer couldn't get a hold of the solas prop I wanted, so right now I have a Suzuki 3-blade 13.875 X 15 on there, and will test it next week. Fingers crossed.

I also have the trolling control, which precisely manages the motor RPM in increments of 50RPM from 700 to 1200. I don't know how useful that will actually be, though, since I don't think 1200 RPM will get anywhere near hull speed (based on a simple calc of gear ratios, prop pitch and slip from the previous Etec).

So far the only problem I see is the way the wires come out of the motor into the motor well. They prevent the motor from tilting full up, but I haven't had the motor in the water yet to see if the prop gets out of the water before the wires get too bent. the DF90 has a sort of tube that projects forward and causes the wires to be too close to the steering linkages. Any suggestions here would be appreciated.

[OverEasy]

Hi!

Similar wire issues on our DF60AV.
Try seeing if routing under the rudder steering linkages works for you.
We’re operation in “Trawler” mode for the most part and have contemplated just removing the crossover link bar but just haven’t gotten around to it as yet as we may still put the mast up and Genoa sail in August/September (if I get to making a new pintle and taller aft support and maybe new stays🫣).

Best Regards
Over Easy

[Starscream]

With the stock Suzuki 3-blade 13.875 X 15, two people on board, 16 gallons of gas, 100 lbs. of water and NO ballast, the performance numbers are....drumroll....

27MPH, 6,000 RPM

Pretty good. A few MPH short of the 30mph target, but still feels really fast compared to the Etec. There is still some room to de-pitch a bit and try to get the RPM up a bit higher. The boat feels super stable and easy to drive at 27mph.

With ballast at full throttle the motor doesn't hit its full-throttle RPM range, maxing out at about 5,200 RPM. There is a little vibration transmitted into the boat hull between 2.5 and 4.5k RPM. Not sure what to do about it, if anything. It's a little annoying, but on the other hand I barely ever run in that RPM range.

The big prop is amazing for docking and slow speed maneuvering. It almost looks like I have bow thrusters.

[Starscream]

Just went out solo in light chop, with less gas and water than last time.

Hit 30mph!!! Was having too much fun to check the rpm.

Amazing how much more stable it is at 30mph than at 22. The bow starts dropping significantly at around 25mph, and the boat really seems to skim more than plow. I suspect that I was on a real plane..the choppy waves were no big deal, just light bouncing but no pounding.

Did some solo sailing too, enjoyed that just as much.

Feels like the 26X and the DF90A are a really good match.

[Jimmyt]

Very cool! Congratulations on making your goal!

[Dougiestyle]

Kinda looking at doing a new motor to replace my nissan 50 in the near future and the 90 looks like it will do well. I am assuming the 20" is the one for the X model?

[Starscream]

Kinda looking at doing a new motor to replace my nissan 50 in the near future and the 90 looks like it will do well. I am assuming the 20" is the one for the X model?

Yes, 20" is correct.

The dealer installed the Suzuki "Troll mode" controller for me, which adds a small two-button switch panel to the console. When engaged, there is an up and down button that add or subtract 50RPM at a time without the need to adjust the throttle. I haven't found it to be useful yet, since the maximum RPM limit of the system is 1200 RPM and that doesn't move the boat fast enough to be anywhere near hull speed. I haven't tried motor-sailing with the new prop yet, so maybe troll mode may still find its use on my boat. For now, I wouldn't recommend this option.

I had the Etec mounted on wedges, but did NOT use wedges on the DF90A, so the angle is slightly different. I don't know if the wedge removal had any effect on speed, but wedges don't seem to be necessary with the suzi.

The DF90A has a turn-and-forget starter, so you can just click the key over to start and let it go, and it starts itself without any need to hold the key and decide when to let go. Nice. It also has a lower tilt stop and upper tilt memory, so raising it and lowering it is just a matter of holding the button until the tilt motor stops by itself and it's full up or full down. You can set how high you want it to go, and once set you have no worries about hitting the seat or over-bending the control cables.

At idle, you can only hear the water jet, not the motor. At about 2k RPM it's quieter than the Etec, but not AS quieter than I had hoped.

I find it to be a bit buzzy at around the 3.5 to 4k RPM mark, where it transmits a fair amount of fine vibration into the hull. It's smooth at hull speed and very smooth at 6k RPM, but I feel like it could have used better damping between the motor mount and the transom. So far, the buzzing in the mid range is the only negative of the motor. Well, that and having to do oil changes and winterization again. Can't beat the Etec for those things.

[Mannyc]

Hi All,

would appreciate some clarity in the matter as I have seen from most of the form that the DF90A would be a nice choice, but as my Macgregor is already wired with Mercury controls wondering if there is much of a difference between the DF90A and the Merc90. I understand that the Merc 90 is 15lbs heavier than the DF90A but seems to be in line with the same weight that that blue water yachts sold with at the time the DF70 @ 359lbs. Wondering if it has been done with a Merc90 or probably other issues would arise such as clearance issues once tilting the engine upwards?

[Starscream]

Hi All,

would appreciate some clarity in the matter as I have seen from most of the form that the DF90A would be a nice choice, but as my Macgregor is already wired with Mercury controls wondering if there is much of a difference between the DF90A and the Merc90. I understand that the Merc 90 is 15lbs heavier than the DF90A but seems to be in line with the same weight that that blue water yachts sold with at the time the DF70 @ 359lbs. Wondering if it has been done with a Merc90 or probably other issues would arise such as clearance issues once tilting the engine upwards?

Hi Mannyc... I can't tell if you have an X or an M, but with the X the motor cowl width is important if you want to continue to use the factory boarding ladder. The DF90A is just narrow enough that the ladder can flip up and down without hitting it, and just compact enough that it doesn't hit the captains seat when raised.

I saw a a few 90's at a recent boat show and iirc the Honda and Merc struck me as quite large in comparison. May be worth an internet search for dimensions.

The DF90A also has an offset driveshaft that makes it compact in fore-aft direction, which in turn puts the center of gravity of the motor close to the transom, which I like because we do a lot of trailering.

I saw a recent post on FB MacGroup where someone had a Merc115 and their X and loved it.

I switched the controls from Etec to Suzuki...I didn't even consider trying to mix and match brands. The Suzuki throttle is super smooth compared to the Etec, and quite compact.

Weight is a concern. The Etec was the lightest 90hp out there, and I was concerned to switch to the Suzi and add that extra weight, especially as I also have a 2.5HP kicker hanging off the transom. On a recent trip to the 1000 Islands in Ontario, we were 7 aboard for a few days, and with all the gear and supplies on board, the waterline at the stern was almost 4" below the surface of the water. Zero problems though...boat handled like a dream and was super solid under sail. Have to admit that I plugged the motor-well drain hole, because the waves were pushing water up through the drain and into the well. All that to say... the X can handle being overweight, and still look sexy when she is.

[OverEasy]

Hi Starscream

Glad things worked out for you with all those folks aboard and the other weight loadings.
Q:Were you running with or without the ballast tank filled?

Best Regards,
Over Easy