Overpowered 26M question?

A forum for discussion of how to rig and tune your boat or kicker to achieve the best sailing performance.
Hardcrab
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Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: "Cease-fire", White 05 M, 90hp, Boggy Bayou, Niceville, FL

Post by Hardcrab »

Mike,
I have a 90TLDI on my 05M. In all honesty, when I started my search for a Mac, I would have been happy with a 10/15hp to get me out of the docks to where I could raise sail. The 50hp "appeal" did not sell me at that time. I had read all of the opinions presented here while I was looking and could understand each factions viewpoint. I still would see the kicker fulfilling my vision.
With that said, my used 05 Mac came with the 90 installed by the P.O. at a price I could not refuse. Even at first, I was unsure why I would want that much extra power, but a great deal is a great deal is a great deal.
He told me that he had the boat to 33 MPH, fully UNloaded, UNballasted, 1 person aboard, with a 13 pitch prop, 51-5200 rpm.
I have never been loaded that light. With my "standard" loading, and ballasted, the 13 pitch was way to high, resulting in only a 42-4300 rpm max out of a 52-5800 rpm factory number.
I was getting around 17-18 KNOTS with that prop, as I recall. I re-pitched to a 11 pitch and I hit the middle of the factory spec at 54-5500 rpm with a speed of 25 KNOTS "standard" loading, UNballasted. Adding ballast drops the speed to 19-20 KNOTS.
I seldom ever run WOT. I agree with others that the M really starts acting nice around 16-17 KNOTS and above. My usual long distance run (eg Catalina) is done at a sedate 45-4600rpm, UNballasted, "standard" loading plus towing a dinghy, at 16.5 KNOTS, 3 NM per gallon of gas.
So, in my experience, the 90 will do anything the 10/15 (or 50 ) would have done--- but not the other way around. To me, it's like a four barrel carb on your car. It's there if and when you ever need it.
I really like the fact that I can get to the "sweet spot" speed and not have the poor engine maxxed out all the time. To me, a 3/4 run 90 will be much easier on those poor pistons and bearings over the long haul than a maxxed out 50 running WOT all the time. At least, that's my logic.
My 90 TLDI weighs 315 lbs. The various 50's are in the 250-280 lbs range. There are kind folks who opine and inform me that the extra 35 to 60 lbs of deadweight will cause my transom to crack and fall off. Please expand on these theories, and never sit on the motor to enter and exit your dinghy. That combined weight must easily be in the 225 hp range, me thinks.
Would I do it again?
you bettcha.
waternwaves
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Post by waternwaves »

waternwaves wrote:
and as we were walking by the 65ft Pacific Mariner on the dock saturday night..... I heard her say......

"I could live on that................................"


Was that I could live on that or WE could live on that Did she mean with or without YOU

Rick
She used the pronoun "I". I was wondering if anyone was going to catch that.

hmmmmmmmmmmmm
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Highlander
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Post by Highlander »

Well Darren

I see it as your left with two options 1 your gonna be the cabin boy, I've seen your Admiral so that might not be to hard to take :D :P , 2 you can be the captian but that means the Admiral still over ranks you !!! :D :D :D :P :wink: :o
What I'd want to know if I was living in a 65ft'r who's gonna be the chief cook & bottle washer & lets not forget a full time barmaid :!: :) :wink:

Now if I ever meet a good looking blonde with a 65ft'r I'll even go as low as to be her sex slave :D :D :D :D :| but with my luck I'd be designated hull cleaner :( now is that a glass bottom boat I hear :P

I know I know I'm to old for that sh!t , but the full time barmaid sounds "GOOD" I could live with that :) :) :) :wink:

Now where's these drawing of this boat I hear :idea:

Cheers John
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vkmaynard
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Post by vkmaynard »

Like they say.. "That's why they make chocolate and vanilla". Everyone has different requirements.

We do a lot of wakeboarding (kid requirement to use the boat more). The Honda 50 really struggles and needs to be run a WOT (5,800 rpm) on a stripped boat (no cushions, demasted, etc) with a 4 bladed prop for torque. It barely holds 16.5 mph (not in a turn) with a 120 lb kid on the board and two <110 lb kids in the boat.

On our 90 mi trip two weekends previous Billy (XX) got the same gas mileage on his Suzuki 140 as we did with our Honda 50. The only difference being that he was more heavily loaded and running on plane at 22-24 mph while we were stuck plowing thru the water at 13.5 mph at a noisy 5,000 rpm. The Honda is very noisy compared to Billy's Suzuki 140.

We are ready to step up to a much better technology (EFI), more powerful, quieter Suzuki DF70 motor (assuming that it can run 24 mph WOT empty). I want to keep the size down so the kids can easily get on an off the boat from the transom. Does anyone ner the Raleigh, NC area have a DF70 on their X or M that we can take a ride on?

Of course these is just my requirements. Underpowered is a matter of choice. That's why my 1988 Mustang GT was rebuilt to 450 hp:)

Victor
waternwaves
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Post by waternwaves »

John,

the 65 ft boat I would prefer is a mac.....

"I" found one that has had the interior remodeled....
teak and holly trimmed.....
and a true two cabin arrangement....
And I am going to try and get her interested in that..

A little more buy-in prior to an offer should help the acquisition process.....
the real problem for her is ... I dont think she can get used to the idea of another sailboat, but...

the whole reason I have many boats is ...
I enjoy many types of boating....
and I suspect she enjoys fewer types...
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Divecoz
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Post by Divecoz »

vkmaynard wrote:The Honda 50 really struggles and needs to be run a WOT (5,800 rpm) on a stripped boat
Where did you find a 4 blade prop? Does your Honda swing a 14" Prop?
I have been looking for a 4 blade 12 or 13 pitch for my Merc 50 HP BF and have been unable to find one .
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Rich Walton
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Location: Dana Point CA. 2002 X 75hp E-Tec

Post by Rich Walton »

I have a 2002 X with a 06 75 E-TEC, why 75 and not 90? price I picked it up new for 5300 off ebay. The 50 suzi i had died and suzi would not help me (yes i tried every thing and yes i had the six year warr) So when i re-powered I went bigger. I get 25mph fully loaded and with bottom paint. But that is not the big thing. the big thing is the boat never really felt like it got up on plane with the 50 now with the 75 it feels much better. It is something that I am very happy with. I have had both worlds on my boat and would never go back. also it sure is nice around the dock with a 14 prop!
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vkmaynard
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Post by vkmaynard »

Here is one place: http://www.advancedmower.com/honda_outb ... ellers.htm

I have the Solas 4 Blade 11 7/8 " dia x 9"pitch part number 6386957 (I think).

Victor
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Ivan Awfulitch
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Post by Ivan Awfulitch »

vkmaynard wrote:Here is one place: http://www.advancedmower.com/honda_outb ... ellers.htm

I have the Solas 4 Blade 11 7/8 " dia x 9"pitch part number 6386957 (I think).

Victor
Here's where I got my Solas Alcup 4 blade 11 7/8" dia X 9" pitch,
ALCUP C4 - Aluminum Propeller Interchangeable Hub System
http://www.a1discountprop.com/solashondaalcup.htm
About $78 with the hub, and about $50 if they're out of hubs. If so, you can get a YC-KT hub(says Yamaha but fits Honda) at http://www.bellrpg.net/soderbloom/MA/gr ... &GRP=72510

Don't know that it's much faster than the stock 3 blade but much better maneuvering at low speed and a bit quicker starts.
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Bobby T.-26X #4767
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Post by Bobby T.-26X #4767 »

this is the answer for a Mac X/M today...

Image

the new HONDA 90hp VTEC

Bob T.
"DāBob"
'02X w/ '04 90-TLDI (14" x 11 pitch)
Dinghy Motor: '06 2.5-Suzuki
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beene
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Post by beene »

The question is, how much extra speed do you get?
I would have to say if a speed increase is your only objective, then from my personal experience I would recommend transom wedges also. The transom of an M is just not set up right to get the outboard trimmed in enough. I have 5 deg wedges and when I trim up I loose speed, say 2 mph on average, can't see over the bow while sitting down, boat handles poorly, spray increases. All things I want to avoid.

My .02

Cheers

G
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blanton
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my slow, quiet, 140 ;^)

Post by blanton »

I've got one of those 140s. I never go pounding along at very high speed. At moderate speeds the motor is comfortably quiet, not wound-out.

Sometimes, when it's quite glassy out, I do open her up a bit. Rarely ever WOT. In Alaska we often carry more stuff. We just tend to be more heavily loaded with this and that. Fuel, generators, towing an RIB. Survival gear. It's nice to have the power to just ease up on step without being near WOT, with specific fuel consumption numbers remaining quite low. Sound levels remaining low. I suspect this 140hp mill just may last a long time.

When I do cruise faster, I am *very* attentive at the helm. I've been around boats all my life, fished in the Bering Sea for 17 seasons, survived all sorts of storms, broken windows, knock-downs, groundings. I'm 57 yo now. I may get in trouble at sea some day, but chances are having that 140hp back there will not have been the main problem.
gregatta
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Re: Overpowered 26M question?

Post by gregatta »

I own a 2007 McGregor 26M powered by Tohotsu 50 hp two-stroke engine. I have been experimenting over the past three years with different props, trim settings, and weight distribution in order to optimize the Boat performance but alas to date, I haven’t managed to even remotely approach the advertised speeds while motoring. The motor seems to have been installed at the correct height with anti cavitation plate in line with deepest part of the hull. I currently have a nine pitch maximum diameter prop, which allows the motor to rev up to almost 5000 RPM at WOT. The most disappointing feature is that the boat seems to have a hull speed which I cannot get past. Emptying the ballast seems to have little or no effect on cruising speed. I can cruise at 6.5 knots with the motor running anywhere between 2500 and 3500RP. The maximum speed never exceeds 9.5 kn.
I was thinking of installing a larger four stroke motor possibly at 60 or 70 HP or even a big foot/ high t torque version of a 60hp.
Has anyone got any experience with the performance of a larger motor? Would it make a difference getting the boat on some sort of plane.

Greg Malta
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kurz
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Re: Overpowered 26M question?

Post by kurz »

Can you run a smaller prop? 5500rpm should be possible.

Don't estimate to much from a 60hp.

9.5kn at 5000rpm is not bad...
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NiceAft
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Re: Overpowered 26M question?

Post by NiceAft »

On my 2005 :macm: with my 50hp Honda four stroke, I can cruise at 9.5 Knt. Close to full throttle I can do 12Knt. Redline is 6000rpm. I don’t do that often.

Twenty + years ago when both the boat and Honda were brand new, I could do 16Knt with an empty boat and no ballast.

If I may quote Be Free: "If I were in a hurry I would not have bought a sailboat."
Ray ~~_/)~~
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