26M PHRF

[Richard O'Brien]

'Just got my phrf rating from the official Sailing Association of Intermountain Lakes. They gave me a 222, and if I add a spinnaker later it will cost me another 12 pts. Are they nuts I mean I was expecting a 290 or more? We should be flattered as M owners that we're supposed to outrun a Santana 20 ?? i wonder what the formula is, as I'm pretty sure they have no experience with this boat, and thus the disappointing handicap?

[Sloop John B]

I'm sick to the face with this phrf stuff.

I join a golf tournament and show them what I've been doing and they tell me they'll give me a 50 stoke lead in the contest.

Give me a break.

Racing is foolish, unless you have a pack of 26s on the course.

Handicap is crap. Get a faster boat or get your family together and go cruising.

If I choose to race, I want to be at the finish line. Not computer points figured after the sun goes down.

[James V]

Maby Heath can make a seperate section for raceing?

[baldbaby2000]

Richard,

I'm not sure what I was given last year but I think it was higher. Looking at the US Sailing site the 26M has a Portsmouth (DPN) number of 96. The number is in brackets which means that not much data is available for this estimate. There are also no numbers assigned for the different wind conditions which also implies a lack of data. Portsmouth numbers are derived from actual races results that are sent in from the various fleets.

There is a conversion from Portsmouth to PHRF at http://www.phrfne.org/page/570. Putting a 96 in the formula gives a PHRF of 246. I wonder if the handicapping committee would consider this in their assignment. Can you appeal it before the race?

If it's any consolation, I plan on racing. What kind of headsail are you using? Was the headsail size figured in the handicap?

Last year there were a couple boats (J-boats I think) with no motors. Perhaps we should remove our motors and sail with no water ballast!

[AWKIII]

Richard:

I got mine back a couple of weeks ago and it came in at 111. I called and told the rater that I thought it was too high and didn't want everyone pi$$ off. He said that he reviewed it along with every other club rater in the country. The designer of the boat just laughed and said wait to you see what happens to it next year.

Art

[AWKIII]

I'm sick to the face with this phrf stuff.

I join a golf tournament and show them what I've been doing and they tell me they'll give me a 50 stoke lead in the contest.

Give me a break.

Racing is foolish, unless you have a pack of 26s on the course.

Handicap is crap. Get a faster boat or get your family together and go cruising.

If I choose to race, I want to be at the finish line. Not computer points figured after the sun goes down.

I am assuming this is a serious post. If it is, then its pretty insulting and way over the line. If you don't like the discussion, don't read the thread. Just like television, change the channel. Not much to say other than you are pretty ignorant about the system and how it works.

[Tripp Gal]

As a handicapper for our club, I would say that unless your ratings for other boats are unusually high, then 111 is completely wrong. 240 (flying sails) is about right from what I've seeing around here. 111 means it's as fast or faster than the following boats:

Dash 34 (120)
Ross 930 (121)
Hotfoot 30 (117)
J-29 (masthead and fraction editions rate 119)
Olson 34 (rates 110)
Cat 42 (rates 117)
C&C 35 (rates 122)
Cal 40 (rates 123)
Olson 911 (rates 129)

If you want help filling out your appeal, just let me know.

[AWKIII]

Tripp:

The 111 is not for a Mac. Its for a 25 footer that was designed and built in New Zealand. After what seems like an eternity, she will be finally on her way home in a couple of weeks.

They used an Ultimate 24 as a comparison. 111 still seems high when you consider what a Melges 24 or Rocket 22 rates.

[Tripp Gal]

OK, so that makes more sense. I was thinking your Mac was being rated 111, and recommending that someone should put the crack pipe down.

The rocket 22 is still under rated as a boat. it should be at least another 9 sec. I watched, timed, and observed over several events on east and west coast now, and the rating she has is a bit gracious even still. So they used the Ultimate 24 huh? Interesting comparison base. I'd love to see/talk more about the boat. Email/pm me and you can start showing off the "baby" tales and plans.

Sudie

[AWKIII]

Frank, did you eat paint chips as a kid? It would explain a lot.

[Richard O'Brien]

I'm sick to the face with this phrf stuff.

Racing is foolish, unless you have a pack of 26s on the course.

Handicap is crap. Get a faster boat or get your family together and go cruising.

Sloop, I'm not going after the x's, I just want to try to gain some respect for the Macgregor waterballasts, I'm sure i'll get my nose bloodied a little, but Heck , I'm Irish I know what you're saying. No one would ever phrf a horse race. The fastest horse is the fastest horse; however, putting the winnebago up against the sportster requires a fair adjustment and it is just for fun Yea right, like we all believe that?
I guess that I have to remind myself that a lot of folks in the world are truly suffering, and not having a totally good time.

I ran into a Corsair owner when we were docking today, and he confessed his former boat was a Mac. He had nothing bad to say about it.

Mighetto, I never understand half of your stream of consciousness writing, but we like Sudie, and find her to be fair-minded, and always willing to offer genuine, and ernest advice about sailing generally, and particularly racing. Everything I've read about Tripp's are pretty admirable. I think the Tripp 38 won Sail's boat of the year last year?

It's where the "Rubber meets the road" that counts, and I 've been led to believe that both You and sudie are pretty good canvas jockeys.

[baldbaby2000]

I don't see what a PHRF number for a 26M has to do with Bush getting elected!

[kmclemore]

All I know about "PHRFP" is that when said as a word it sounds a lot like my sons did when they were babies and would let out a little gas.

And that's about all I really need to know about it, too.

If I want to race, I'll buy a racing boat... our Mac is just a cruiser/camper/fun-toy.

[Lease]

.................morphing into a racing/cruising debate.

Don't know that you have to take a fixed position on that. I have always raced, and likley always will, but do much more cruising than racing. These days I tend to give the Saturday afternoons around the cans a big miss, but still love regattas and will keep doing them.

As far as handicapping is concerned, you have to swallow hard and cop it in the knowledge that you won't be taking the champagne home. The fact is that length and sail area/displacement ratios involved in fixing formula-based handicaps are always going to ignore some of the home truths about the Mac's 'other' dimensions.

The (Oz) Trailer Yacht Assosciation fixes a 'Class Based Handicap' (CBH) to each recognised class of Trailer Yacht, much like your PHRF and they do it by calculating a formula (I believe the formula is in big trouble with some of the big 'demountable' catamarans now exceeding 1.0 - the baseline - and therefore required to finish some time before they start in order to win). The CBH for Mac classics is .690, and the 26X is .720. Sportboats start at around .810 so there is next to no hope of beating them (the Melges 24 is .890). Back down the list, the Mac is expected to beat almost everything of a lesser length according to its handicap and the truth is that it aint going to happen in most cases.

Racing is fun and I've had a lot of it over the years with my share of goodies in the trophy cabinet. I don't ecpect anything from the handicapper with the Mac and that is exactly what you get. So I reckon that if you buy a Mac and want to race it, more power to you as you will learn much about sailing. If you buy a Mac and want to win at racing (even on corrected time), then the choice you have made may not be the best.

[AWKIII]

Tripp:

I agree with you on the Rocket 22. Have heard that that there has been some "problems". Especially up around Vancouver. I thought I had read somewhere that new Rocket was rated higher than the original Pocket. Hate to be the builder right now. Its a no win situation. But it will sort itself out.

My boat is a one-off. All carbon. The closest thing they could find to compare it to was a Ultimate 24 sailing out of Monterey. It was rated a 99 there and adjusted it to 111 for my area.

Will e-mail some pics over to you. Some new ones are due shortly from the yard.