Main car position

[windquest]

Does anybody ever sail with the track car on the windward side. Is there anytime it would be beneficial like when your beating upwind possibly?

[Mark Karagianis]

Definitely. I'm assuming that you are referring to the M's traveler. Although it makes it very hard to get into or out of the cabin, especially when you are already heeling at 25-30 degrees (!), having the traveler all of the way to windward enables you to better shape your sail. Good for maybe 1/2 knot +. Otherwise, when you are really close-hauled, the main sheet ends up just pulling the main straight down and flattening your sail.

A plus is that when you are heeling way over, you have a straight shot from the helm to the mainsheet pulley, being careful to avoid the legs of your hiked out "rail meat".

Yeah, sailing last weekend was a blast!

Mark

[windquest]

So you always put the car to windward or just at certain points of sail?

[ssichler]

Pulling the traveler windward will give you more power. Pulling it leeward will induce twist and spill wind to depower the sail. I think this is true at most points of wind.

[baldbaby2000]

I put it to windward while beating in winds less than about 8 knots or so. This allows the boom to be pulled in close to the center line without having things so tight that you loose that full sail shape. When I'm reaching I'll let the traveller out. If it's very windy I'll also let the traveller out especially during a gust.

[Richard O'Brien]

If it's very windy I'll also let the traveller out especially during a gust.

Daniel. P;ease clarify? Does that mean that you let it out , but still keep it to windward? Is this to depower the sail as Mark indicated? If you were under 20 degrees and were racing might you trim it in a bit? Thanks

[Mark Karagianis]

Yeah, I keep the traveler to windward from close-hauled until reaching; then it is just more convenient to move it to leeward. When I'm close hauled and I need to flatten out, I just let out the mainsheet. Otherwise, if you also let out the traveler, then you would have too much stuff to do to get back to the trim that you had. Plus, how would you reach the traveler from the stern seat?

[delevi]

Pulling the traveler to windward adds twist to the sail, and also adds draft. Letting the traveler to leeward flattens the sail and reduces draft, which is better for windy conditions when beating. Centerline works well in light air, and sometimes works in windy conditions to get a good balance of twist and draft by letting the top of the sail spill some air, yet not adding too much draft. I have experimented with this quite a bit and I think under most windy conditions, the boat heals least with the traveler to leeward. All this assumes that the main sheet is adjusted accordingly to got proper trim.

I like to have the traveler to windward when broad reaching or running to get maximum twist at the top and maximum draft at the bottom. This is only because of the limitation of the swept back spreaders, not allowing the main to be let out all the way out for downwind sailing. By twisting the top of the sail, you allow it to catch maximum windage, while giving the sail some belly-draft at the bottom. Though not perpendicular to the wind, it still allows for maximum push, given the limitation of the spreaders.

Leon

[ssichler]

Leon,
I was going to dispute your assertion on twist but had to go back and review my book on sail trim. Looks like the traveler adjusts the angle of attack. Easing the traveler will decrease the angle of attack. Easing the mainnsheet increases twist in the top portion of the mainsail spilling power. Twist is defined as the leeward sag of the leech of the sail.

-Scott

[baldbaby2000]

Daniel. P;ease clarify? Does that mean that you let it out , but still keep it to windward? Is this to depower the sail as Mark indicated? If you were under 20 degrees and were racing might you trim it in a bit?

Richard. First I'll say that what I do isn't necessarily right. I'm still experimenting. We were racing last Saturday on Granby in gusty conditions 10-20 knots. During the lighter winds on a beat I'd have the traveller to windward vang not too tight. As the wind picked up I let the traveller to the center or leeward and sheeted the main tighter to flatten the sail. I also tightend the outhaul if I thought the wind was going to stay high. During a gust I would sometimes let the traveller out to leeward to depower the boat and still keep the sail flat. If it was just a quick gust and I wanted to act faster I'd use the main sheet to depower by letting it out. During all of the beat I left the vang on a little but not too tight.

There seems to be conflicting information on what to do in different wind conditions; for example, having a flat sail (tight vang) depowers in high winds and reduces heeling, yet if the wind gets too high it's better to have a looser vang to add twist to the sail so the top of the sail doesn't have much effect. This would also tend to give the sail less of a flat shape which seems like it would add power to the lower part of the sail. I'm not sure where the line is between windy and very windy when one would want to have a loose vang.

[Richard O'Brien]

This is that part where they told us that sailing is more of an art than a science , Huh?

[delevi]

Daniel,

I have been battling with the same thing; balance between twist and a flat sail (in windy conditions.)

Scott,

Your book is correct that the mainsheet sets twist and the traveler controls angle of attack (if you choose to work it that way.) If you consider, however, that with maximum twist set by the sheet, it is out far, and to get the right angle of attach for a beat, you will sheet your traveler to windward, thus giving you a twisty sail, trimmed for your upwind course. If you want to reduce the twist, you will pull your main sheet in, but if you're on the same point of sail, your sail is now overtrimmed, so you have to drop the traveler to leeward. I'm essentially saying the same thing. I choose to the set the traveler at the position of twist I'm trying to attain and then trim witth the main sheet. With the M traveler, this is most practical, unless you upgrade to more purchase. When single-handing, it is also much easier to trim the main sheet than the traveler.

I found that the same settings don't work all the time, so it's always fine tuning for the wind and sea conditions.

Leon

[Tripp Gal]

Good rule of thumb for a beat is bring the car one car length to weather on your traveller then adjust the mainsheet til you get all the tell-tales flying but the top one. The top one should stall out for 2 out of 3 seconds, then flutter then stall again. Using this method of one car length to weather you don't need to vang sheet much, if you start bringing the car up higher you have to vang sheet to make sure the top isn't twisting off too far and being inefficient.

[They Theirs]

A good traveler will power up/down the mainsail in changing the booms angle of attack while maintaining the leech tension and sheeting angle of the mainsheet. Vang-sheeting, requiring a very strong boom and powerful vang, providing a somewhat similar mainsail control youre describing while using the Ms marginal OEM movable mainsheet attachment to windward to pull the boom to center.

You can only do so much with a very marginal set of sail controls. Those familiar with fully equipped sailing controls praise their value, many without the experience claim otherwise.

[Frank C]

I'm fortunate to have chosen the Garhauer 12:1 rigid vang as a dealer option, right from day-one with my 26X. Unfortunately our factory equipment is mostly inadequate for heavy conditions like SF Bay. The Mac's tiny noodle-boom is basically inadequate for vang sheeting. But this Garhauer is also too long for our boats ... mounting at about 60 deg. vs the mast, 30 deg. to the boom ... while most vangs are mounted about 45 degrees to each. This means that it pulls down at about 4-tenths aft along the boom, well aft of where a vang normally mounts to the boom. Then too, our imported OEM sails quickly evolve a beer-belly.

But it turns out that some heavy-duty vang-sheeting, somewhat too far aft, on an extremely wimpy boom ... just happens to nicely solve the mainsail's beer-belly. The result is that a generous dose of heavy vang can almost deliver a nice flat main in heavy air.
Seems to me that we 26X owners suffer with a fortunate confluence of inadequacies.