Considering an M - Questions?

[ssichler]

And now my biggest fear...The SIZE... Is this boat a nightmare to dock or put on a trailer due to how high it sits out of the water? I have about 2 years solo experience on a 20 ft daysailor (Flying Scot) with a 5hp. The boat is still in perfect condition so at least it shows I know a little about getting it to the dock opposed to thru the dock ...however I've never handled anything this size and solo. Should I be concerned or is the learning curve relatively painless?
...

The learning curve is relatively painless depending on what you hit and whether you go with a blue hull;) It docks more like a power boat (with high windage) than a keel sailboat. With rudders and dagger board down it handles pretty well. I wouldn't go solo until you figure out how to handle it in various conditions. I found these videos helpful - http://www.uspowerboating.com/maneuvers.htm#Docking

[ALX357]

Had my MacX for two years now...
What I don't understand is why it is claimed that the furler adds to set-up time more than the hanking wire forestay. Both have to be attached the same way at the nose. Leave the furler line completely rigged. Cover the furler drum with a wooly wash mit, and it is no threat to the deck or windows. Everything else is the same. Managing a 150 Genoa would be a royal PITA without the furler.

[ALX357]

a repetition of previous thread material...

Docking the Mac is ALOT easier by going in reverse. Not just at the last moment like you do with the car in a parking lot backing in, but coming into the piers in reverse. I turn the boat around in a large area of the marina well before approaching my slip. IN REVERSE. sitting beside the pedestal, next to the controls, facing backward. One or sometimes two rudders DOWN, and half centerboard, or daggerboard if you have that.

The boat controls alot better, you have a better view, are closer to the place where contact is approaching ( boat pole for extra precaution ) and can dismount onto the dock to manage dock lines before the boat is all the way in. Leaving is easier also... just drive straight out.

of course, trailer docking is going to have to be forward; search for the post mentioning PVC corral to see how to modify the trailer to catch the boat and straighten it even in a crosswind. Works single-handed without any other helpers or drivers, just takes the extra time of waliking back and forth from the tow vehicle to the temporary dock point.

[Divecoz]

Not trying to Hijack this thread but I bring her in with ALL boards (rudders and D.B. ) All Down all the way . Works so much better than when I didnt . . . . More hours means better sailor . . .

[Bobby T.-26X #4767]

Regarding larger motors:
Only a handful of dealers are authroized by MacGregor to install a motor larger tha 50 HP and the maximum is 70 HP. If you want to go bigger than 70, you need to go to someone who is not a Mac dealer.

this has always confused me.
what does one dealer know that another doesn't?

here's the conversation Roger typically has with a couple of dealers:
"OK dealer #1, you're authorized to put on a 350# Suzuki 70 and I'll warrant it. But dealer #2...I just can't allow you to do that, and therefore I will not warrant it."

it just doesn't fly!

it specifically says in the manual "50hp max".
it doesn't say "350#-70hp Suzuki is warranted by a handful of authorized dealers only!"

bottom line, if you don't get it in writing, you got nuttin'.

[They Theirs]

MacGregor Powersailing

Sailing: I share a view with most sailboat enthusiast, keep it light on the ends. I approach this question knowing I will use the boat as most, for which it was designed. As a sailboat and a motorboat.

Following the philosophy of Bigger is Better applies to boat speed with marginal returns. As larger outboards in both horsepower and size (Weight) are applied to the MacGregor, it becomes more motorboat than sailboat; the same applies with smaller engines bringing about better sailing attributes. If youre so inclined to favor Motorboats and their ability to get there faster, why buy a 70 or 90 hp knowing full well the 115, or 140 provide the ultimate satisfaction in performance. Youll ski and run with modest powerboats and bring drop-jaw performance on faces for your having the biggest and the fastest.

We all know, as the water gets rough, the Mac cannot use excess power over the Factory Recommended 50 hp. The fact MacGregor Big Engine enthusiasts have the self-control to throttle back preventing damage to the hull when the going gets rough, verifies they know the Macs structural limitations. That being said, I believe the lightest 50 hp two strokes provide the best match for sailing and motoring as designed. The untimely demise of the lightest two cycle engines, and the development of four strokes technology, brought increased weight on the transom, but benefited from computer-controlled economy, which is now available in two strokes of similar weight. If you decide to deal with the largest of oversize engines, possibly preventing the helm seat from closing, and have the cash to feed the largest at todays prices, (big engines cost and eat more fuel, thats a fact) dont miss the chance to have the largest engine and fastest Motor Sailboat at the marina ramp.

Reading a sailors recent recount of a modest trip on a friends motor yacht. His favor of sailing could not shadow the voluminous interior motor yachts offer for their size. His first observation during the day cruise was just how little there was to do while under power, and how he soon ventured inside the friends boat to entertain himself with its systems to avoid the boredoms associated with hours of the droning engine noise and vibration. Having a preference for sailboats and the busyness of tacking and jibing, while maintaining the drive in the sails as the boat heals and carves for its ultimate destination.

Most times when Im motoring its more about arriving when we get there, but when the sails are full and gratification is afoot, its all about sailing, and being one with the elements. How quickly it is over as we arrive.

[RandyMoon]

I have a M with a 90 horse Tahatsu and think that it was overkill. I would probably go with a 50 if I had it to do over again.

If your are going to do lots of skiing or planning on motoring fast for long distances, maybe the bigger motors are a good thing. But if you are going to do average sailing, 50 is plenty.

[richandlori]

Regarding larger motors:
Only a handful of dealers are authroized by MacGregor to install a motor larger tha 50 HP and the maximum is 70 HP. If you want to go bigger than 70, you need to go to someone who is not a Mac dealer.

this has always confused me.
what does one dealer know that another doesn't?

here's the conversation Roger typically has with a couple of dealers:
"OK dealer #1, you're authorized to put on a 350# Suzuki 70 and I'll warrant it. But dealer #2...I just can't allow you to do that, and therefore I will not warrant it."

it just doesn't fly!

it specifically says in the manual "50hp max".
it doesn't say "350#-70hp Suzuki is warranted by a handful of authorized dealers only!"

bottom line, if you don't get it in writing, you got nuttin'.

That is exactly the Point...Rodger IS NOT. It is the individual DEALERS that are assumming the extra Risk in Warrenty...NOT MacGregor.

[delevi]

Regarding the furler and rigging:

Yes the connections are thesame, but the wieght and relative unwieldiness of the furler forestay takes a bit more work. The real time consuming part is to fasten the furler/forestay for trailering. I also use a wooden post at the end closest to the drum to keep the whole deal straight. Again, time to attach and secure. Don't get me wrong. I love my RF jib and wouldn't trade it for a hank-on jib, but it just takes more time when rigging. I applaud all of you who can do the task in 30-45 min. I haven't been able to do this yet after nearly 2 years of owning the boat. Granted, I keep the boat in a mast-up facility near a ramp so the only time I deal with rigging is when going to other places, which is maybe 10-20% of the time.

Leon

[Bobby T.-26X #4767]

I have a M with a 90 horse Tahatsu and think that it was overkill. I would probably go with a 50 if I had it to do over again.

If your are going to do lots of skiing or planning on motoring fast for long distances, maybe the bigger motors are a good thing. But if you are going to do average sailing, 50 is plenty.

Randy:
you are officially the 1st person ever on this board to wish he had less horsepower (and that's OK, just unusual).

you probably feel that way because you do most of your boating in fresh water lakes. on a small lake i might feel the same, even opting for a 10-25hp.

however, i believe that you would feel differently if you did the majority of your boating in the ocean, the great lakes, enormous lake powell (Colorado River), or the huge lakes along the Columbia River. in that case you would likely be motoring (and sailing) many miles to a destination in a fully (over) loaded Mac so that you could then spend the nite.

yet, if "average sailing" is what you desire, then why own a Mac? that is, get an average sail boat, not a motorsailer.


i have a feeling that your quote above will be used in future threads about Mac engine size.
TT will be bringing it out early and often.

[Bobby T.-26X #4767]

MacGregor Powersailing

Sailing: I share a view with most sailboat enthusiast, keep it light on the ends. I approach this question knowing I will use the boat as most, for which it was designed. As a sailboat and a motorboat.

Following the philosophy of Bigger is Better applies to boat speed with marginal returns. As larger outboards in both horsepower and size (Weight) are applied to the MacGregor, it becomes more motorboat than sailboat; the same applies with smaller engines bringing about better sailing attributes. If youre so inclined to favor Motorboats and their ability to get there faster, why buy a 70 or 90 hp knowing full well the 115, or 140 provide the ultimate satisfaction in performance. Youll ski and run with modest powerboats and bring drop-jaw performance on faces for your having the biggest and the fastest.

We all know, as the water gets rough, the Mac cannot use excess power over the Factory Recommended 50 hp. The fact MacGregor Big Engine enthusiasts have the self-control to throttle back preventing damage to the hull when the going gets rough, verifies they know the Macs structural limitations. That being said, I believe the lightest 50 hp two strokes provide the best match for sailing and motoring as designed. The untimely demise of the lightest two cycle engines, and the development of four strokes technology, brought increased weight on the transom, but benefited from computer-controlled economy, which is now available in two strokes of similar weight. If you decide to deal with the largest of oversize engines, possibly preventing the helm seat from closing, and have the cash to feed the largest at todays prices, (big engines cost and eat more fuel, thats a fact) dont miss the chance to have the largest engine and fastest Motor Sailboat at the marina ramp.

Reading a sailors recent recount of a modest trip on a friends motor yacht. His favor of sailing could not shadow the voluminous interior motor yachts offer for their size. His first observation during the day cruise was just how little there was to do while under power, and how he soon ventured inside the friends boat to entertain himself with its systems to avoid the boredoms associated with hours of the droning engine noise and vibration. Having a preference for sailboats and the busyness of tacking and jibing, while maintaining the drive in the sails as the boat heals and carves for its ultimate destination.

Most times when Im motoring its more about arriving when we get there, but when the sails are full and gratification is afoot, its all about sailing, and being one with the elements. How quickly it is over as we arrive.

TT:
well said!

[NiceAft]

Sailing is the journey, not the destination. It's a Zen thing!

Ray

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

While Bill certainly gave you the standard party line on the tour, there are dealers who are factory authorized to install larger motors. A case in point is Blue Water Yachts in Seattle.

http://www.bwyachts.com/Engine%20Choices.htm

Not only do they have Roger's blessing (if not Bill's) but they also have the only custom factory built M concept boat with all the special toys you will never find at any other dealer who only has stock boats.

http://www.bwyachts.com/La%20Perla%20No ... 20Home.htm

Not all dealers are the same. Some are full service with decades of MacGregor experience selling many hundreds of boats. Others deliver a bare unrigged boat, a box of parts, and leave you on your own as soon as the check is cashed. Choosing your dealer wisely will greatly enhance your experience as a new MacGregor owner. AT BWY you not only get a fully rigged boat, but you get 1 on 1 setup instruction and on the water training so you will feel comfortable docking the larger boat.

By the way, the first time or two the boat will seem a handful, after your first season you'll look back and wonder why you had any concern. Get your boat and get out there.

As for trailering, while some have had issues with the Mac trailers my '96 is still rust free and going strong (almost all our boating is in salt water). I find loading a mac to be easier than any other sailboat I have loaded and just as simple as your standard ski boat. We had her out of the water yesterday quicker than the ski boat or the bass boat that were in front of us. Nothing special needed, no long lines or anything, just back the trailer in until the fenders are submerged. Float her along the dock into the slot, Jump down to the trailer, clip on the winch and crank her home. Pile in the truck and pull her out (I always dump the ballast on my way to the dock).

[Catigale]

A bigger uses more fuel at the same operating conditions as a small engine, correct.

However, its very likely a 115HP owner would often tick his engine over and reach comparable efficiencies as a 50 HP running the same course...

In either event, the differences in fuel economy at the same HP are likely to be small and not a cost driver for ones looking at these choices.

ON the subject of warranty, I do not believe anyone on this board has an installed >50 HP (unless the M was officially upped to 70 HP) sanctioned by the factory.

The dealer may well 'sign up for this' but that does not imply the factory is behind her/him in any way.

[James V]

Has anybody asked their insurance company if they will insure the boat with an engin above 50hp? What if you lied?

What about Coast Guard Regs or the State Water Police? Any thoughts?