New carbs needed (I guess) for Bigfoot. What do you think?

[ChrisNorton]

My 99 Merc 4 Stroke Bigfoot has developed a nasty vibration and lost a bunch of top end. Authorized Merc dealer took a look and said all four carbs are badly gummed up (probably due to really bad gas). He quoted me two prices (both of which were sky high). One was to clean them all out (which he says is time consuming because of the small passage ways in a 4 stroke.) That price was $1700 (mostly labor at $95 an hour...I know that is crazy high but that is what you get for living near NYC.) I couldn't find labor hours for less than $75 an hour anywhere around here and this is the only authorized Merc dealer for what that is worth.

The second price was to completely replace all 4 carbs. It is around $2000 (most of that was parts at $300 a new carb.)

What do you think? What are my alternatives?

Thanks for any feedback,
Chris

[Frank C]

You're right - both are crazy.

That same Merc dealer would probably trade it out for an EFI Bigfoot for only $3,000.
At least that way - he'd not get his paws into your wallet for gum & varnish again.

[ChrisNorton]

So are you saying this is crazy to even consider paying this much? What are my options? Would trying to free it up with some of the gunk remover spray bottles help?

Assuming that the hourly rate is, yes excessive, but within what everyone else rips you off for around here, does the amount of time seem unreasonable to replace 4 carbs (~5 hours) and the cost per carb ($300 per card)?

Thanks,
Chris

[Frank C]

Once you remove a multi-carb setup, yes it's a hassle to restore their balance. I'm no expert on carbs but 5 hours does not sound like a rip-off, the overall price does. I've faced the issue with multi-carbed motorcycles, which convinced me to go with EFI outboard, even way back in 1999. Got it with the six-year warranty ... still hasn't been back to Suzuki.

At $1,500 I wouldn't even consider it. I'd stop by PepBoys or Kragen and get some liquid tune-up stuff - at least to try it out for ten bucks. Socal Mike (aya16) must not be reading today or you've had already had a lot of down-to-earth, backyard advice. Unless you have a couple of boatbucks burning holes in those pockets, Stay tuned.

[ChrisNorton]

There are no boatbucks burning holes but the motor really isn't useful without some sort of repair and I am no gearhead. I can of course run a bottle of stuff through it but I'm not sure it will help. While the marina is expensive, I actually work part time there as a scuba instructor so I wouldn't expect them to rip me off and he told me they are so gummed I don't a bottle of stuff will work. He did say he could clean them out and rebuild them but that's still a ton of money at $95 an hour. The problem I have is that this a big marina and they don't really want to mess around with little jobs. I guess I could go fetch the trailer (which is 200 miles away) and tow it someplace else but I couldn't find anyone considerably cheaper in this area. New York City sucks when it comes to stuff like this. Everyone's got way too much freakin money which drives costs for everything else through the roof.

Waiting for Socal Mike to weigh in.

Thanks,
Chris

[Night Sailor]

Lucky for you it's a 4 stroke. If you are absolutelly sure it's the carbs, you have the right idea. Get some fuel cleaner or just plain denatured alcohol (4oz. per gallon of fuel plus 1 oz. of Marvel Mystery Oil) and run it through the system from the tank. Make sure your fuel filters are clean. If fuel caused it, fuel can clean it.

Other causes of poor performance could be valve timing, ignition leaks, air leaks, and clogged air intake passages.

Ruinning cleaner through the engine with fuel is a quicker and far less expensvie way to find out if it's just gummy fuel meters or residue in jets or passages.

[Divecoz]

OK OK OK NOW !!!
Where is our British Car Guy ??????
He can show you tell you point you in the right direction about balancing multi Carbs . . . . Color Tune works well but I will leave it all up to Kevin.

[Craig LaForce]

Assuming you do not want to pull the carbs yourself like I did, I would call Goodluck pt Marina (new Jersey at mouth of Tom's river.) They would give you a fair price. Well worth it to even trailer the boat down there, get the motor fixed and enjoy being in a nice place for a day or 2. They are superbly qualified folks there and more than fair.


If you are reasonably good with tools, pulling the carbs is not too hard, at least it was not that bad on my Tohatsu. There is also no need to rebalance the carbs. The throttle linkages simply pop off and on wthout disturbing the adjustment setting.

I would not dream of having any repair work done within a 60 mile radius of NYC.

[Bill ( My Pleasure)]

I replied to the wrong pst on this once. I had all 4 carbs of my 1999 50Hp. Bigfoot taken apart and cleaned for $500 in Newcastle , California (near Sacramento) by Galaxie Marine. The said it took 5 hours which was longer than what they said was normal. The cost was $95 per hour. Carbs do not need to be rebalanced after cleaning. Seems to have made a huge improvement.

[aya16]

Didnt get to read all of the post will give it a go tues.
I just got back from the boat.

But I wouldnt pay 3 thousand dollars for a power head rebuild let alone carb job.

what have you got to lose pull the carbs and clean them yourself.
Thats why auto parts sells a spray called gum out.

make sure you take the jets out and clean them too.

[Robert]

I would go the do it yourself route first. Try the fuel system cleaner, if it gets a little better, try doing it again, maybe you can return to decent performance, and stay on a fuel cleaner regimen for a while to keep it clean. I think that a carb removal and cleaning would work better than any fuel additive.
..
If you are considering the new carbs option, ask about replacing the carbs with fuel injection, maybe it is a bolt on if you change the computer as well.
..
Also ask if the replacement carbs are the same or a different design.
..
Maybe you can swap outboards to a slightly used one, and get more power if desired.

[ChrisNorton]

Thanks for the suggestions. Some came too late as I had the boat already in service. After I talked to them (armed with info from your posts), they backed off replacing them all. He did show them to me. They looked incredibly wrecked, at least two of them. They ended up replacing two of them and rebuilding two others. Also needed to replace the fuel pump, fuel filter, fuel hose and fuel tanks. Turns out this was caused from some very bad gas I regularly received from my local marina. In the end, they spent a total of 8 hours working plus parts. It wasn't cheap but not as expensive as they first told me.

One other interesting thing I learned. I've done all my own winterizing including using gas stabalizer and fogging cylinders (both of which were recommended in the Merc owner's manual for the engine.) This authorized Merc dealer told me not to fog the cylinders at all and highly discouraged me from using gas, even stabalized gas, that sits all winter. They said to use fresh gas each season (burn the extra in the snow blower) and make sure all the gas is run out of the motor. They said all you need for cylinder care is to mix a small portion of 25:1 oil/gas mixture and run that through the engine as the last gas it gets and then let the engine run out of gas. These leaves a small amount of lube on the valves, etc but doesn't overly gunk everything up. And that, they said, is all a four stroke needs each winter. They winterize 200 outboards each winter and that is all they do.

[TonyHouk]

Chris,
Make sure that you get the old carbs back. You can not mess up the carbs just by having them junked up with gas. Someone had to wreck havoc to them somehow. Why did they say that you had to replace the tanks? I can see the fuel lines as they get dry rotted after a while but I think they are taking you for a ride. Like I said get all the parts. Take pictures of them and email them to me. I think you are being scammed.
Here is something to help you question them. I last took my boat out two years ago. I placed some fuel stabilizer in the tanks and that was it. I ran the engines dry before I last ran it. This year I went out and started the engine up and it ran like a top. I thought the gas would be varnished but that was not the case. The marina's advise for you to not fog the engines is so that they can scam you for more money. Take it somewhere else next time. Their advice about putting some two stoke oil in the tank is true. It does help to keep the gas fresher over the storage period. I regularly put extra oil in my tanks during the season. Well I am glad to hear that it is running right. Have fun, Tony