Topping Lift vs. Lazy Jacks

[c130king]

All,

Did some searching to see what I could find on this issue with little success so I will go ahead and ask the question...hopefully it is not a repeat question/

After reading some previous threads I began to worry that my topping lift was too short. It did not seem to hang loose when the sail was up. So yesterday while sailing I looked at it closely for the first time. It is tied to the top of the mast and tied to the end of the boom. No adjustment capability.

As I looked at it I decided that I could simply remove it since my lazy jacks are connected and will hold up the boom when I lower the sails. Sure enough after I finally got the old knot untied the lazy jacks held my boom up fine with the sail lowered.

So does one even need a topping lift if one has lazy jacks?

For now I think I will keep it tied to the mast top but will secure it to the base of the mast somehow once I have the lazy jacks tightened up and in place. I will retie it to the boom when I am ready to loosen my lazy jacks and put on the sail cover.

Does that sound logical?

Thanks,
Jim

[James V]

Of course the best thing to do is to get a longer line. I kept mine long and just wraped a few turns around the boom to get it out of the way when the sail is not up.

[mike uk]

Strictly speaking, lazy jacks should not be used to take the load of the boom - they are just meant to guide the sail when dropping the main.

I suppose tthe point is that the fixings etc are designed just for the purpose so overloading them could cause damage. But then again maybe it wouldn't!

Mike

[Terry]

A knot at each end???
Funny I have a pully at the mast top that the topping lift line runs through. One end of the line has a shackle tied to it to hook onto the boom end, it then runs up to the mast top, down through the pully and down the mast to a little cleat where I cinch it tight. I can adjust it up or down to clear the bimini.
What do your lazy jacks look like?

[ssichler]

Without a topping lift or some kind of rigid vang or boom kicker the lazy jacks are very tight when raising or lowering the sail and the sail tends to catch on the battens.

[Andy26M]

A "properly" rigged topping lift is as Terry described above: it runs from the end of the boom, through a block at the top of the mast, and then down to the base of the mast where it can be used to raise/lower the height of the boom when the mainsail is not up.

For convenience, most topping lifts also have some sort of adjustment capability at the boom end so that you can slack the topping lift once the sail is hoisted, without having to go forward to the mast.

- Andy

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Has anyone out there had success with a rigid vang or boomkicker on a M. The rotating mast makes it more difficult to use than on a X.

If you can get it to work, these are far easier to use than a topping lift. I've been real happy with my boomkicker. It and the vang provide easy adjustability of boom height and the boom never comes crashing down if you lower the main without first remembering to tighten a line which you have to keep slack (topping lift or lazy jacks) to get proper sail shape and control.

I also still use my backstay pigtail (sorry M guys). It is just a short wire pigtail swaged to the backstay with a clip on the end that you hook to the boom end. It is useful even with the boom kicker as it stops side to side swinging of the boom when the sail is stored and covered. I do not keep the mainsheet attached to the boom except when sailing. This clears the cockpit of the line and makes it easier to use my full enclosure.

I've seen a number of M's with running backstays added. It should be possible to rig a pigtail off one of these that would nicely store the boom to one side.

[c130king]

My topping lift, as previously mentioned, is not adjustable. I didn't ask at the time (because I really didn't know any better) but the PO installed the topping lift this way. I have since untied the bottom knot so that I can "adjust" the lenght of the topping lift somewhat.

My Lazy Jacks were also installed by the PO. I believe he used a kit. I have never seen another set of LJ's so I don't know if the set-up I have is "standard". I frequently have one of the battens get caught up in the LJ's on the way up but it normally corrects easily if I lower a little, give the sail a shake, and then continue to raise the sails.

I have never taken the sail or boom off my yet. But I plan to do it pretty soon. I realize that it will be a pain due to the way my PO rigged everything. The LJ's are connected to the mast, the boom and to the shrouds (lower I think...). The main halyard is run back to the cockpit through fairleads and turning blocks but the upline and downline are one and the same...thus I will have to disconnect one end and feed it through all the fairleads. Same with the jiffy reefing system.

I just hope that once I disconnect all these lines I can get it hooked up again after I get my sails all cleaned up.

This may be a common issue for many boats that are rigged for single-handing but it looks complicated to me at this point in my sailing career.

Jim

[eric3a]

..

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

One solution I've seen on a few boats to the sticking on the way down problem is to add a down hual.

It is usually a light line tied to the bottom of the headboard and run weaved through the sail slugs (sorry to those with only a bolt rope) to keep it along the mast, through a turning block and back to the cockpit.

A simple pull on the line will overcome any sticking in the track or lazy jacks on the way down.

[delevi]

Jim,

When you do take that mast down, invest in a small block (approximately $25) and some longer line, 3/16". Install the block on the port side at the mast head. Viola! You have yourself an adjustable topping lift, which is really the way to go. Your current setup sounds like a mess. A boom kicker is better than a topping lift, but will cost more than 10 times of what I described and essentially does the same thing. If your lines are led aft, you probably want to run the topping lift line aft as well. You'll need one more block for that and longer line, but well worth it to be able have full conrol: give it plenty of slack when sailing and take up the slack when you are lowering your sail or reefing, all from the cockpit.

Leon

[c130king]

Leon,

Sounds good. I will definitely look into that. Any guess as to how long that line would need to be if run it all the way to the cockpit?

Thanks,
Jim

[delevi]

Mast 30x2=60'
Boom=10'
leads to block @ port stancion post and back to cockpit=15 to 20.


90 feet should do it. You don't need high load line, but the cheapest 3/16 line should be around 35 cents/foot and will have a breaking strength of 1000 lbs+ (more than enough.)

[Terry]

Honestly to my liking -and mileage will vary greatly!- lazy jacks are a waste of effort on small sails, especially on non fully battened sails. On a 42 footer cruising cat they make sense... on a 26 mono I don't see it.

I've never found it that difficult to furl the main on my own that I thought I needed lazy jacks.

Eric

I can just imagine Eric out there with his autopilot on pointed into the wind and wrestling that mainsail while furling it in 15-20 knot winds just outside the marina with a dozen other boats in his vicinity trying to get around him while his autopilot blindly steers him into oncoming boats.
Eric,
Wait till you try single handed on "Ugly Duck" and it will become more clear. I have a few ideas as to how I am going to install lazy jacks this spring and here's why:
When it comes time to hoist or douse that mainsail (singlehanded) on the way out or in to the marina, I want to have a quick & dirty means of doing it. Before leaving the marina I can remove the sailcover and all sail ties and leave the mainsail sitting in the lazy jacks ready to hoist as soon as I get outside the marina breakwater. Likewise when it is time to return I want a quick & dirty means of temporarily dousing that sail until I get secured at my slip, then I can take the time to roll up the mainsail in a more tidy maner and cover it. They apear to me to be the answer to a prayer, or is it just a mis-perception.
Can you think of something similar I can do to my hank-on headsails? If I douse those with a downhaul I am going to have reams of sail blowing all over the bow and into the drink. I am trying to dream up a method for containing the jib until I get safely secured in my slip, when I can deal with it better.

[eric3a]

..