Just who can install over 50hp? (MacDealer discussion)

[mikelinmon]

Just so you will know. There are no special dealers for installing oversize motors. Roger MacGregor has not given permission to anyone to install motors larger than 50hp. Just ask to see it in writing. Many of his larger dealers do install motors larger than 50hp, including me. It is risky. Nothing will break on the boat but if there is an accident some lawyer will blame it on the installation of a larger than manufacturer recommended motor.

Very little extra speed, much extra cost, much worse range, heavy steering; in short the 50 is better. Use an E-Tec 60 if you want more as it is same weight as the 50, ditto for Merc 60 or Yamaha 60. These will cost you a bit of range and about $800 more.
Mike Inmon

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

In writing, on the Bluewater Yachts web site. I think Todd would have a different opinion of what Roger has authorized them to do.

HOW CAN BLUE WATER YACHTS INSTALL 70HP ENGINES?

Mod's edit: Please refer to dealer's commercial website ~fc

Here's their whole engine story. The 70hp Suzuki has become the engine of choice for most new boats sold by BWY.
http://www.bwyachts.com/Engine%20Choices.htm

Use the custom BWY steering connection and in seconds you can take the load of the motor of the system completely.
http://www.bwyachts.com/web%20catalog%2 ... eering.htm

Todd's ties to the factory go very deep, including the only 26M concept boat ever built.
http://www.bwyachts.com/La%20Perla%20No ... 20Home.htm

[beene]

Hi Duane
Just curious, do you plan to upgrade your OB?
If so, are you convinced the Suzi 70 is the one for you?

Cheers

G

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Send me some cash and I'll bolt on a larger motor in a heartbeat.

My wife and I have agreed that a new motor is officially on the list of upgrades for the next "lot's of extra cash to spend event" whenever and however that may happen. I'm not holding my breath.

I've not really shopped and compared motors AND prices, but from my casual browsing I feel the motor of choice for our X would be the new Honda 90 just introduced. It weighs the same as the Suzuki 70 (and it's twin the Honda 75) and at 359# is the most weight I would want to bolt on. I think this motor may turn out to be the ideal combination of power and weight for a Mac.

Now if you are playing in the 70ish hp max range I would do some hard comparisons between the Suzuki 70 and the new Honda 75. There are a lot of nice features on the Honda.

Mind you I would not limit my list to these four strokes only. When I really do shop I'd look at the Yamaha motors. At 237# the 60 is attractive but perhaps a bit underpowered. The 369# 75/90 is heavy compared to the Honda, but not by much. The Merc's share powerheads as I understand it, but they are even heavier than the Yamahas at 399# for the 75/90hp (No offense to your choosing it.). I've also heard they are noisier and run rougher, but I have never tested them myself.

Then there are the 2 stroke contenders. I've never minded keeping my oil tank full and I certainly like the ultra low maintenance of my Tohatsu 50 two stroke. I'd consider the Tohatsu TLDI 70 and 90. At 315# the weight's not bad and I have full confidence in the Tohatsu motors. Our's has been bulletproof for 6 years with nothing more than occasional plugs and lower unit oil. I've never winterized it. Last friday after sitting through all our storms and cold freezes we dropped in the lake, turned the key and it fired right up. I hadn't done a thing to it since I parked it last August.

I'd probably look at the Evinrudes, but I've heard mixed reviews about them and would be more hesitant to put my money in one of them.

So after saying all that, offer me a screaming deal and I'd take any of the above. There are really four reasons I would switch from my Tohatsu.

First and foremost is noise. I want to be able to cruise at 10 - 15 knots and still hold a conversation in the cockpit. This is not possible with the Tohatsu carborated two stroke.

Next is low speed performance. My motor hates to idle in or out of gear, it always has from day 1. Perhaps it's just a carb tuneup that is needed but I don't have the equipment to do this. At the very least I'm going to dive in a try and find a idle level screw to turn up before the next trip. It's very frustrating in the locks and around docks when the motor keeps dying at the worst times. I've taken to lifting the idle plate when in neutral so the thing will keep running.

Following that is more power. The 50 hp is so close, but still just short of what this boat needs. I want a top end in the 20's for playing with water toys. The boat just cries out for that little bit more power.

And finally I wouldn't mind better fuel economy. While it's not a huge requirement, every little bit of extra fuel mileage would be appreciated. It's not the cost so much as the range.

Still, it's hard to spend money to replace a motor that is working great. Our's has been super reliable and served us well over the last 6 years and 1,500+ nautical miles. Reality says you'll see me out cruising with my Tohatsu 50 for quite a long time. While the motor is on the list I doubt it will make it to the top anytime soon.

[Phillip]

Here is our situation in Aussie.
The 2 largest Insurers I have sought quotes from will not, under any circumstances, insure a craft with a motor that exceeds the manufacturers recomendations in accordance with their engineering design limitations of that craft.
I needed to know that before I looked at boats in USA.
Cheers
Phillip

[beene]

Thanks for the indepth reply. Very well thought out as usual.

My OB is a 2005 model, the specs I have show that it is 349# with a 1600cc head. The new 2007 75 is a 1732cc head which might account for the extra#.

As far as a screeming deal, I bought mine from iboats.com for $3299 usd and will be installing it myself this spring. Sounded like a good deal to me, so I jumped on it while they had a few available. I was watching their site for quite some time before that deal came out. I don't know if it will be good for the M or not, no experience to tell you about, yet

It sounds to me like you have a gem of an OB already, having a reliable one is more than half the battle, heck I don't even know if mine will run well yet

I bought the boat and figured I'd worry about the motor later. Just used the 7.5 honda off my Sandpiper. Not much speed out of that I'll tell ya, and a PITA to manouver in the marina, you should have seem me standing there with the seat up one hand on the tiller, the other on the wheel, not pretty.

Can't wait to put it all together and give her a good run. 2 props on ready, a 14x11 and a 14x13.

Kids want to go tubing for starters, they are 5,7. Skiing will be next, if the Mac will do it

Cheers


G

[ssichler]

Mike thanks for your post. Duane it's pretty funny that you are arguing with the guy who's prominently featured in the video and brochure. Mike also has one of the black "concept" boats that you think is unique to BWY.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

I'm not arguing. He said ask for it in writing
and I simply posted it in writing straight from BWY web site.

Members please take note that there is no criticism of Duane intended, whatsoever.
His posts are simply a convenient opportunity to cite Forum guidelines:

This is a non-commercial website focusing on Macgregor Yachts. Dealers have the option to market their Mac-related products and services through paid advertising, should they choose.
Please DO NOT insert quotations of Mac Dealership marketing materials,
because that is unfair to other Mac Dealers. You may include a link to external pages.

In order to clarify, it's fine to endorse your favorite dealer, share service examples, normal testimonial info. But please refrain from inserting any Dealership marketing content into your posts.

You will find similar alterations to other posts in this thread. Thank you.
~fc

Todd will tell anyone who asks that BWY has factory permission to install a 70hp motor. If Mike see's it differently that is his choice. Just because his face is in a picture doesn't make his claim any more valid than BWY's claim. BWY clearly states something to the contrary of what Mike says and I was simply pointing this out.

You decide what to believe, or go ask Roger yourself.

I have no beef with Mike or agument that he is also closely involved with the factory. I'm sure he is a great dealer in California just as Todd and BWY are in the northwest. Both have decades of experience with MacGregors and are clearly at the top of the dealer food chain. Both also have Rogers ear as I'm sure together they amount for a very big chunk of Rogers sales.

If Mike has one of the black concept boats he is enjoying the fruits of Todd's work. Todd and Roger designed and built the first of these boats, as you can read in the story at the BWY web site and see in the pictures. Todd walked the concept boat through every step of the manufacturing process at the factory. He and Roger spec'd all the features that depart from the standard M design. The first concept boat is a product of Todd at BWY and the MacGregor factory.

It's good to hear that they have made more copies of the concept boat for other dealers. This may bode well for some of the improvements making their way into the standard boats.

Even so you can count on BWY to continue to evolve the concept. They have made many chages since they built the concept boat back in 2005 (as we all saw at the Friday Harbor Rendezvous in 2006) and have even more in store. I am looking forward to seeing the carbon fiber rig at this years rendezvous in June.

[ssichler]

The web site claim might be considered an implied warranty but it's not the same as "having it in writing" i.e. a real warranty. As I said in another post it's really a non-issue since the Macgregor warranty excludes anything installed by the dealer. I'm sure BWY is a competent dealer and feels comfortable that their 70hp install will not cause your boat to break in half. Considering others have installed up to a 150 hp engine and we haven't heard of any problems it's reasonable to say that if you want a 70 hp or 90 hp you are safe from the voided warranty fears.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

I agree, you really have to trust that your dealer knows what they are doing. There is big difference between the dealers with years of experience with these boats and the new guys or the guys selling parts in boxes.

As Mike said in his post, even he installs bigger motors than 50hp.

Can you break the boat with a bigger motor, sure. I think you could even break the boat with a 50hp motor based on my experience last Monday in some very big and rough seas with my boat. I could have beat my boat to pieces even with just the 50hp if I'd wanted to. It all comes down to how prudent the operator is at matching the operation of the vessel to the conditions at hand.

One thing my son and I did decide, 'Small Craft Advisories' means us. At times NOAA seems very conservative in their forecasts but this time they really meant it.

Even so these boats are tough and 'Allegro' took it all in stride as we slowed down and made our way safely across. At no time was the boat threatened even though these were the biggest seas by far we have crossed in 6 years of cruising Puget Sound, the San Juans and the Inside Passage of BC. We only saw two other boats out during the 28 mile trip and they were big big power boats. The Grand Banks we converged with outside of Shilshole was heeled over 15-20 degrees by the wind on his beam. We think our boats have a lot of windage you should have seen his GB42 lean with his slab sides and full flying bridge canvas.

[Highlander]

I was in the Mac factory Site the other day and read some of the boat reviews posted there by Roger & they say the boat is factory authorized up to 70hp

[beene]

Makes me wonder when or if Roger will ever change what he calls the "recommended Max" from 50 to 70

[richandlori]

....this issue seems to be the trying to find out about the area 51! When I was at the Mac Factory....to help Bill the new owner of my 26M, I asked Bill about this 50Max HP issue and he stuck to the party line of nothing over 50hp, but then added that it wouldn't be a problem, but who would want to do it anyway? This one may never get solved because it would require Rodger to rewrite his paperwork, and as anyone that has been to the Mac Factory can tell you....change is a dirty word around there!

[beene]

change is a dirty word around there!

Roger That

[mikelinmon]

Hi folks,

Roger has changed a few things in the past 40 yrs. A trailerable boat with a swing keel, production line for sailboats, water ballasted sailboat, production sled (the 65/70 ), production big cat, rotating mast on a monohull cruiser, fiberglass beams in the deck replacing balsa core that saved over 100 lbs from the deck, etc.

How about mods to the M itself. The first lead daggerboard weighed 600 lbs, was 6" longer than std and was on my boat! A blue boat! The bulb keel was first used on Todds black boat. I then made one for the second black boat. I recall the bulb weighing 500 lbs. The bulb keel is stiffer but the daggerboard fin has less drag in chop. High wind favors the bulb but waves favor the fin.

Try to get the best of both. I have not sailed them side by side but now use the fin. We have used the rotating mast ( masthead, taller,larger main with battens,self tacking jib etc ) in so many versions we can only repeat ourselves. Present is 15/16th rig ( the foretriangle is 20% taller than std and we got a 12 sec penalty on PHRF) with masthead spinnaker. Mike Inmon