Sailing Upwind

[Jeff S]

This weekend I went sailing on the Neuse river in NC, the winds were 12-14knots. Relatively new to the Mac I was sailing upwind with the main and jib out- I started to heel at between 20-30 degrees. With the CB fully down the boat would round up into the wind until the sails started luffing, the heeling stopped and it would fall back off and repeat (generally as speed picked up). I had the rudder hard over the whole time. I figured it was the CB generating too much lift so I pulled up the CB. I got the boat going from 5-6 knots and tracking pretty well with some weather helm.

When it came time to tack the boat would not come about, it would fall back off as it got into the wind, my momentum would stop and I would have to build it back up again. I think the lack of CB (not sure how much it was up) was letting the wind and current push my boat back.

Being new to Centerboards I am curious as to others' techniques in moderate wind for tacking- Should I drop the CB first, turn the wheel, then unsheet the jib? If so when do I pull the CB back up to prevent me from rounding back up into the wind on the opposite tack? I didn't get to try this for time.

The centerboard seems to add a whole new variable to sailing, which fascinates me. I just want to learn how to integrate the CB into my sailing properly. The way I understand is- a run- no CB, Beam= 1/2 cb, close reach= ????(does it depend on boat speed? I would imagine it does if the CB is a lift generating device). BTW what speeds (honestly) have some of you seen on the different points of sail? When (if ever) do some of you sail unballasted? If so does it improve your boat speed? Lots of questions I know, please answer any you can.

-Thanks,
Jeff S

[craiglaforce]

Sounds like you have too much mast rake. Generally the mast needs to be tilted forward a tad from the initial setup from factory. Do a search on rig tuning or mast rake or Bruce whitmore's article (probably under "featured articles" for details.
If you have more quetions just yell.

[Janusch]

Also Jeff, I know it sounds strange, but at that wind speed you should be thinking about reefing the main sail. I find that the Mac does not do will when heeling that much (30 deg).

It also sounds like you had your CB up to far. I have done that a few times and you are right it is hard to get through the wind even more so if you are sailing in choppy waters.

The only other thing to look at it to make sure the jib is back filling a little before you release the windward line. Then quickly pull in the leeward line.

After the tack is complete I also keep the boat on a reach for a min or two then start to come back to a close hall. this prevents it from stalling on me.
Good Luck and God Speed.

Dave.

[Merrick White]

Jeff, the above are good answers and I would point out one more item. Having the rudders hard over can stall the boat.

Tacking in a Mac with its light weight and high freeboard can be a problem when the wind is strong. Throw your rudders over for just the few seconds of the tack and take a beam reach for a minute to build power back up.

I've had a couple occasions (20+kts) when I have had to jibe to get on the other tack.

I also leave my centerboard down in stronger breezes because I need the lift and pivot point. I don't want the center of effort moved towards the stern.

[Jeff S]

Thanks for the replies. I did a search for mast rake and read the article, looks like I have some rigging to mess with. Once I got the CB up(probably too much like Dave mentioned) I was able to keep the rudders at a decent position to track well and was making good speed at about 45* off. Once I had the CB up I was heeling at about 20* steady- the boat seemed to do well with that.

I will also try to beam reach idea. As it happened I could not tack and had to do a 270* Jybe as Merrick mentioned. I will try reefing as well. I did run with the main only for a bit, but it didn't really alleviate the problem, only raising the CB seemed to help (no reef in the main). At about what wind speed do most of you reef in general?

I will also work on using the jib a little better to help as Merrick mentioned.

Thanks again, good stuff.

Jeff

[Steve K]

Jeff,
Everyone gave you great answers. I just wanted to add a couple things that have helped me. Learning to sail the MacX, particularly tacking it, after owning a small keel boat with masthead rig and tiller has been an experience for sure.

Anyway, I find that if you hang on to your working sheet, during the tack, until the jib backwinds, this will help pull the bow through the eye of the wind. Once the sail is backwinded, center your helm, cast off the sheet and take in the new one.

You have to be very aware of where your helm (or rudder position) is on the MacX. Go easy on the helm during a tack and never lock the rudders hard over. This just turns them into brakes. One of the hardest things for me is the loss of feel of the rudder on a boat with a wheel, instead of a tiller. but you will eventually learn just about how much helm to apply, to get the boat through the eye of the wind. That's all you want to do. Let the boat come about around 100 degrees in a tack, until you get a good feel of what she will do and how tight she'll point.

And as others mention, take out all the mast rake you can. the factory spec on mast rake builds in a lot of weatherhelm The mast should be raked about 1.5 to 2 degrees if possible. Start by cranking in the forestay turnbuckle all the way and adjust the rest of the rig accordingly (if these are factory wires). And yes, reef the main sooner than you'd think you should. I added a reef point to mine, 30 inches above the foot. This should have been included with the factory sail imho and works very well in those iffy conditions, where you don't really want to put in the factory reef and take away 40% of your mainsl area, but the boat is heeling pretty good.

This boat operates best when it is heeled over at least 10 or 12 dedgees, but less than 18 or 20. Although, I sail mine at 20 to 25, just 'cause I'm having too much fun to stop and put in a reef

Also, I've dipped the spreader tips in the water a few times now and I must say, I have no worries about laying her down. She is very forgiving and when the sails depower, she'll always stand back up nicely. Kind of creates a jumble down below though

SK

[Frank C]

. . . I will try reefing as well. I did run with the main only for a bit, but it didn't really alleviate the problem, only raising the CB seemed to help (no reef in the main). At about what wind speed do most of you reef in general?

Jeff,
Amplifying one point, you can consider the mast and centerboard as a vertical pivot pole, with mainsail aft of the pivot, and the jib forward. Wx-helm happens when aft pressure is too great ... the aft-pressure on the mainsail pops the bow toward the wind (an unwanted, partial tack). As you pull the CB aft, you're moving the pivot aft, helping prevent that unwanted flip toward the wind, but you're also making it more difficult to tack. Sailing w/ main only, you have no balancing pressure to hold the bow, so Wx-helm will happen at even more distant angles off the wind.

When wind speed climbs from 7 to 15 knots (scattered whitecaps) your sail plan (main plus jib) is at its limit of balance capability. Reef the main (do you have mid-reef point?) and your sail plan gains a new range of balance, say from 13 to 19 knots. Reef fully (to the factory reef point) and your balance might be good from 18 to 23 knots.

Sounds like you're using mainsail plus jib. The Genoa can balance the main within a wider wind range (10 to 16?). However, the Genoa quickly becomes too much sail, since pressure increases at the square of wind speed. As you reef (partly furl) the Genoa, its pressure climbs higher up the mast and it induces more heeling, just the opposite of what you need.

[Len V]

I have been a frequent visitor to this forum for the past 2 years since we've owned our "02" X. This is one of the most informative exchanges I've read in that time. Frank's explanation of the mast and centerboard as a pivot pole is the best explanation I've ever heard of how the X sails. Thanks Frank!

[Scott]

In 12-14 winds I also would have the main reefed and Partly furled jib (not Genoa) If you furl the Genoa too much the foot rises pretty high and puts the lift higher in the sailplan. X's point way better under jib than Genoa also as the Jib sheets inboard and the Genoa out. Qualified by the fact that x's dont point too well to begin with. Also the hard over comment regarding stall is a good point. Two rudders = a lot of water brake. (I corrected my spelling)

[Frank C]

Scott, agree you're spot-on regarding jib and Genoa. I love my mylar 135, but it's not fun when wind gets up to 15 knots +. And thanks, Len, I'm think the same logic applies to all sloops.

Just one opinion, though . . . I rarely reef the jib. I've found (correctly or not?) that the Mac is heavily overwhelmed by its mainsail. There's no science in these numbers, since wind, waves, depth and chop, and gusting all conspire to complicate the equation. However, IMO, you must reef early (15?) and early again (20?). Meanwhile, the full jib is still valuable for its forward balancing vs. the mainsail.

I think the 26X can consistenly achieve 7+ knots close reaching in a steady 18 knots. However, this was nearly impossible in my factory rigged boat. Seven knots is beyond the traditional guidelines for hull speed, but it's consistent with David Gerr's modified theory of hull speeds for semi-planing hulls. (I'll find that link and post it later). The boat actually feels much lighter and more responsive with the reefed main.

I reduced mast rake to 88 degrees (from factory's 86). Though I'm not sure that's mandatory, at least it gives a wider window of conditions before weather helm rears its ugly head. Good speed definitely requires a very flat mainsail, to help control heel. Lots of down-vang (a traveler would be better), lots of outhaul and some added backstay. The result of all those adjustments is a flat-as-possible mainsail, hopefully limiting heel to about 25-30 degrees.

[Schock Therapy]

You are getting lots of great boat-specific advice that I am unable to give, but there are general guidelines and theories that apply to just about every sailboat.

For starters, when doing upwind work, flat sails are what you want. Full or baggy sails generate too much drag and heeling moment. This means most of your sail controls should be cranked on pretty hard. This includes Jib halyard (to pull the draft forward), Jib sheet, Main Halyard/cunningham, Vang, outhaul and backstay. This is even more important on dacron cruising sails because they are stretchy to begin with. Once you have your mainsail "boarded out" (as in flat as a ....) you will find it much more manageable when the gusts hit. This is where travellers rule. you can leave your sheet cranked tight, and drop the boom to leeward to spill off power without changing the shape of the sail. In your case you will need to use your vang to maintain downward tension on the boom, and sheet to control sheeting angle. This is less than ideal because the vang is connected to the boom much closer to the gooseneck, and therefore requires much more power to pull on. Of course that also makes bending the boom more likely! You can get more tension on the vang by cranking on hard with the sheet, and then locking it in place with the vang. As I have preached on other threads, an adjustable backstay is a worthy upgrade for any boat, and frac rigged boats in particular. mast bend will dramatically flatten out the mainsail, as well as opening up the leetch to depower in gusts.

I keep hearing about people changing the position of their centreboards to compensate for excessive helm. This should not be. For upwind work, your centerboard should be fully extended. On swing type boards you will loose huge amounts of lift if you partially retract it. Helm balance should be achieved by rig tune and sail trim based on the cb being fully extended. You need all the cb lift you can get for upwind work.

Another cause of weather helm is heel. A sailboat will naturally want to round up more as it heels. If you are sailing with too much heel, you will have to use way too much rudder input to keep the boat going straight. If you have too much rudder angle, it will not only be slow, but your rudders will be inefficient. High aspect foils such as yours require more flow across them to generate lift. Not only that, if they begin to stall, you will loose a large amount of steerage until you can get flow reattached. While the rudder is stalled, the sails are steering the boat, and you end up in irons. Ideally you want to carry only a few degrees of weather helm. Just enough to give you some "feel". I can't speak to exactly what the optimum heel angle for your boat is, but I would think that carrying as little as possible would be good. That opinion is based on having raced many flat-bottomed boats; without exception, flat is fast. ( and fast is good!)

[Scott]

Schock, you are right on with your advice re: rig trim, perhaps you are too humble . I agree that upwind you should leave your keel down and balance with the sails.

Frank this is where reefing a jib comes in. I find that to balance the sailplan in heavy wind against a reefed main I have to reef my Jib. Plus we lose speed at much of any heel past 15-20 degrees, hence the next paragraph.

Schock, I also find that I get more speed reefed in winds aproaching 20 knots than I do with all the canvas in the air. Upwind that is. Weve hit 7 knots beating and reefed down in wind that stiff. I cant do it with all of the canvas up with the excessive heel.

And Frank, For pleasure sailing (wife and daughters aboard) we reef early, 10-12. For adventure sailing (just my brother and I) we reef at around 15.

We regularly sail in 15-20 mph winds and puffs of 25+ with main and jib reefed, I only have 1 reef point so I just dump wind if it hits too hard.

I also feel that you beat your rig badly having the boat overpowered like that. Personal opinion.

As for The 7 knots stuff, we get 7 knots a lot sooner than 12 mph winds. This picture is with full main and jib. "Sorry, just noticed sheet location, This is with the Genoa"

[Scott]

This pic is in 15+ wind. We were in a hurry so I didnt change the genoa for the jib. You can see how the foot of the Genoa rides Up when you reef it.

[bscott]

Reefing the stock genny will raise the foot of the sail to a point that it will drive the bow to leeward. The stock genny was not designed as a "reefing" head sail---only a furling sail. I have a Neil Pryde reef/furling 135 that, when reefed, maintaines the correct foot height and can be sailed very flat because the foam luff pads take up the bag. Other sail makers use zippers to take up the bag. Either way, this is the best way to improve pointing and sail handling. Always reef the main first (even the bogus deep reef of the stock main). Lots of good ideas as to how to install a traveler on the X---another necessary pointing tool. Lastly, I don't recommend raising the CB as it will reduce heeling but induce leeway---another enemy of pointing high.

[Joe 26M Time Warp]

This is fun stuff for a dry docked sailor with two Mac's in the yard.

As I recall, perhaps someone sailing a can confirm, but I have genoa only. I have sailed a fair amount with the big foresail reefed in stronger winds and never thought it caused difficulty pointing the boat into the wind. Certainly I'll found the boat in irons a few times. Mostly I remember my wife announcing the GPS reads "zero".

To me the strangest thing about sailing a Mac is the lack (especially when beating) of "tiller feel". That was always the heartbeat of the sailplan on our Bucaneer; another slightly unconventional flat bottomed sailboat. The Buc could ride it's own bow wake, and not only would tip over, but was also known to turtle.

One day last summer while I was in computer/chartplotter heaven in the cabin, my first mate was skipper and talking profusely with her friend our only passenger. As I glanced out the window, realizing we were tipping farther over than I ever dared I also realized there was probably no real danger either. We were approaching or past 66 degrees and I was on the low side getting smashed into the wall, still typing away.

I'm not sure there's a big difference between the and the regarding a reefed foresail but there sure is a big difference between them and anything like a Bucaneer.